Automatic episode summary
Still Strong #9 brings Keith Vance together with Billy Morris, a friend of more than a decade. Keith opens by reading the outline of Billy's life: born in Sanford, Florida; married to Jenny for 32 years; a physician assistant for 23 years; a business owner for 12, with two locations; three children and one granddaughter. One of those children, his oldest son Ryder, died of an overdose at 21. Billy says early on that Ryder is one of the main reasons he agreed to come.
The first stretch of the conversation is about formation. Billy's father was in and out of his life, and after his parents divorced his mother moved the boys to Moss Point, Mississippi, where her family lived close enough that forty or fifty people could pack his grandmother's small house at Christmas. He credits that house - two grandmothers, three uncles, an aunt and uncle who could not leave the dinner table without stopping to kiss - with shaping him, and says he would give his left hand for one more Christmas there. He also tells what he later learned about his father: a man physically and sexually abused as a boy, who carried birdshot scars put there by his own father, and who never raised a hand to Billy, his brother, or their mother. He broke that cycle, Billy says, and he speaks of hoping - not of knowing - that his father made his peace with God.
From there the talk moves through marriage and calling. Billy and Jenny met at a club in Orlando; their first date was a walk around Lake Eola. His father-in-law, Dick Ryder, offered to pay for medical school and was then diagnosed with pancreatic cancer; Billy spent nights caring for him, and only after Dick died did Billy apply - one school, one time - to a physician assistant program that took forty students out of more than six hundred applicants. Keith and Billy work through what they understand Scripture to say about a husband's post: strength given to serve a family from underneath rather than to rule it, and a wife who follows a man she trusts.
Twenty-three years in the emergency room supply the episode's hardest ordinary truth. Billy calls it controlled chaos, describes the gallows humor that keeps a team functioning, and admits the cost: your empathy kind of dies. Jenny is the counterweight - the one who elbowed him to go pick up a crying four-year-old. The fitness segment and the business segment carry the same thread: discomfort taken on purpose, and honesty that costs money, including clients he talks out of procedures they do not need.
The last hour belongs to Ryder. Billy traces the addiction from weed to pain pills obtained through a family the Morrises were helping, describes an overdose he worked himself on his own floor for about thirty minutes until EMS arrived, and then the morning three days before Hurricane Irma when Jenny was doing CPR, Avery was on the phone with 911, and Billy ran red lights from the ER behind a sheriff's escort. He says he knew as soon as he walked in. He tells listeners plainly what not to say to a grieving parent, describes being put out of the room because it had become a crime scene, and does not soften the year that followed: he turned on his wife, stopped praying, stopped reading his Bible. Jenny reached out to Keith and to Billy's mother. A Christian counselor eventually walked him back through three words - fear, abandonment, dread - and named the abandonment as the wound, because Billy had stood in his driveway and prayed over his children every night.
Keith answers that with the cross. Billy answers it with his wife, who carried a marriage that was, by his account, 99-1, and would not put him down. Eight years out, he says he still does not see the reason, only that he has to believe there is one. The episode ends with Billy praying for anyone who needs the message now or will need it later.
Speakers
- Intro voiceover other
- Keith Vance host
- Billy Morris guest
- Crosstalk other
- Crosstalk other
Chapters
- 0:43 Introduction and a long friendship
Keith reads Billy's biography - Sanford, 32 years married to Jenny, three children with one lost, 23 years as a physician assistant, 12 years as a business owner - and explains why Billy made his short list of people to call.
- 9:22 Moss Point, grandmothers, and his father
Billy describes the Mississippi house that raised him and the uncles who filled the gap, then tells what he learned much later about the abuse his own father survived and the cycle his father refused to pass on.
- 22:54 Legacy, roles, and finding Jenny
Keith on being remembered the way Billy remembers his family, then both men on God's design for husband and wife - and the night Jenny asked Billy to dance at a club called Resurrection.
- 38:51 From physical therapy to PA school
Billy's first career was physical therapy. His father-in-law Dick Ryder offered to send him to medical school, then died of pancreatic cancer - and Billy applied to one PA program, one time, and got in.
- 52:21 Twenty-three years of controlled chaos
What an emergency room actually does to the person working it: the gallows humor, the quiet that only comes when the patient is a child, and the empathy that slowly dies unless someone at home holds you to it.
- 1:08:22 Fitness as therapy, and primal weight
Both men talk about training as mental health rather than vanity - heavy deadlifts, deliberate discomfort, cold plunges, and the sleep debt that night shifts cost Billy for years.
- 1:28:00 Two spas, thin margins, honest work
Billy on owning the Laser Lounge Spa and the newly opened Babcock Ranch location in a market down about forty percent, and on turning away money rather than sell a procedure someone does not need.
- 1:49:24 The birth of each child
Ryder, Reith and Avery - how each arrived, why Billy raised his sons and his daughter differently, and the line he wants clipped: teach a son to be a man, teach a daughter what to expect from one.
- 2:04:12 How addiction found Ryder
Billy explains how it started, why he calls weed a gateway, how common pills are in high schools, and why he insists no family is sanitized from it - including the one that moved to Alva to get away from it.
- 2:29:01 The day Ryder died
Three days before Hurricane Irma, Jenny was doing CPR and Avery was on 911 while Billy raced from the ER behind a sheriff's escort. He describes walking in, knowing, and everything that a family has to do next.
- 2:40:35 Implosion, counsel, and coming back
About a year on, Billy imploded - he treated Jenny badly and stopped praying. Jenny reached out to Keith and to his mother, and a Christian counselor named the wound: fear, abandonment, dread.
- 3:01:33 Honest talk, Avery's calling, closing prayer
How to make a home where a child will tell you the truth, what Avery is now studying because of her brother, and Billy's closing prayer for anyone who needs this message now or later.
Key takeaways
- 20:12 Billy's father was beaten and shot at with birdshot by his own father, and Billy says that upbringing broke him emotionally. But his father never laid a hand on Billy, his brother, or their mother. Billy calls that restraint strength: "he broke that cycle."
- 56:35 The real occupational injury of emergency medicine, in Billy's telling, is not physical: "your empathy kind of dies." He needed Jenny to tell him to go comfort a crying child, because next to what he saw at work a scraped knee did not register.
- 2:07:34 Billy pushes back hard on the idea that drug use belongs to a certain kind of family. He describes pill parties among honors students, a surgeon's son found overdosed, and kids in polo shirts and new sneakers who a colleague could not believe were using. His conclusion: you just never know, and no family is sanitized from it.
Pull quotes
On the Mississippi house that raised him: "I have told my kids multiple times, if I could give my left hand to go back and have one more Christmas there, I would do it."
Keith, on Billy's father's story: "Apart from the grace of God that intervened for us, we're all desperate, utterly hopeless, and totally lost. He did for us, but we can't do it for ourselves."
On why heavy lifting reaches something deeper than fitness: "Dude, it's a primal, primal, primal thing... I think there's still that little primal instinct in the back of the mind. It just opens up when you do something like that."
On raising a son and a daughter differently - the line Keith asked to be clipped: "the reason is I have to teach you how to be a man. I have to teach her what to expect in a man."
Recalling the morning of the day Ryder died, after lighting into him over the car and the coming hurricane: "And the last words I said to him were not kind... And those are the last words I got to say to my son."
On what to say and not say to a bereaved parent: "You don't want to hear God had a plan. You don't want to hear he's in a better place... Just go tell people, I'm sorry for your loss. Anything I can do."
On what Jenny carried: "marriage is not a 50-50 thing. There are some days it's 90-10... During that time, it was 99-1. And she didn't complain about it... She had every right to."
On the company of bereaved parents: "Jenny and I have this saying, we belong in a club that we don't want to be in, and we hope nobody else joins."
Scripture & context
- 0:43 Keith opens with the biography he prepared: Billy was born in Sanford, Florida, has been married to Jenny for 32 years, has three children and one granddaughter, has worked as a physician assistant for 23 years, and has been a business owner for 12 years with two locations. Keith says one of the main reasons Billy is here is the child they lost.
- 29:41 Keith lays out his view of the home's structure, using the biblical phrase weaker vessel (1 Peter 3:7) and stressing it is God's terminology, not his. His point is that a man's strength is for serving and carrying the family from underneath - "we lead from the bottom" - and that it goes wrong when strength is used to dictate his own will.
- 2:45:30 Billy first saw a counselor who justified everything, then sought out a Christian counselor - a former ER physician turned psychiatrist - referred through Dr. Amy Trout. Asked for the first three thoughts he had when he walked in and saw them working on Ryder, he answered: fear, abandonment, dread. The abandonment was toward God, because he had stood in his driveway every night and prayed over his children.
- 2:50:36 Keith answers Billy's sense of abandonment with the cross, citing Christ's cry from Matthew 27:46 - my God, my God, why have you forsaken me. His point: the Son was abandoned in our place, bearing sins that were not his, so that those who are in Christ would never be abandoned themselves.
Questions answered
- What shaped Billy Morris as a boy?
- After his parents divorced when he was around four or five, his mother moved him and his brother to Moss Point, Mississippi, where her family lived. Weekends were spent at his grandmother's small house, where his great-grandmother and great-uncle also lived, and where forty or fifty relatives could gather at Thanksgiving and Christmas. Billy credits his two grandmothers and his uncles - Clayton the state trooper who taught him to shoot and drive, Frank the sharp one, and Terry, who married in - with the unconditional love that formed him. jump · 9:22
- What did Billy learn about his own father?
- His stepmother and an uncle told him what his father would not: that his father had been physically and sexually abused as a boy, that the scars on his back were birdshot fired by his own father, and that he was once beaten with a hammer for something a brother had done. Billy says his father was emotionally dead and that he has been critical of him, but that he never laid a hand on Billy, his brother, or their mother. In Billy's words, he broke that cycle, and Billy says he still hopes his father made his peace with God. jump · 17:30
- What do Keith and Billy say a husband's role in the home is?
- Both frame it as structure rather than rank. Keith says God made men physically stronger so that strength could be spent providing, protecting and carrying the family from underneath, and that it goes wrong the moment a man uses it to impose his own will. Billy says the man is meant to be the spiritual leader who walks through the door first, and that the difference between a husband and wife is divine rather than a matter of equality. Keith adds that a wife follows readily when the decisions being made are plainly for her good and not for her husband's pride. jump · 29:41
- How did Billy end up as a physician assistant?
- His first degree was in physical therapy, earned while he and Jenny already had two small children, studying until two in the morning after work. Jenny's father, Dick Ryder, offered to pay to send him to medical school, but then was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and Billy and Jenny cared for him instead. After Dick died Billy applied to one PA program one time - Miami Dade College in conjunction with Nova Southeastern - which had over six hundred applications for forty seats, and he was accepted. jump · 45:15
- What does two decades in an emergency room cost a person?
- Billy calls the work controlled chaos and says the toll does not show physically, it shows in your empathy, which slowly dies. He describes the joking that a team uses as a defense mechanism, and the fact that the room only goes silent when the patient is a child. At home it meant Jenny having to elbow him and ask him to at least act like he cared when one of the kids fell off a bike, because on his scale a scraped knee did not register. jump · 56:35
- What has owning two spas taught Billy about provision and honesty?
- He says people assume business owners are wealthy and do not see the constant financial stress, and that the aesthetics industry is down roughly forty percent from his best year in 2022 while competitors keep opening. His answer is that God has never let them down and they always make it, however close it gets. He also refuses to sell what a client does not need - he regularly talks people out of thread lifts, and he refunded a client twenty-five hundred dollars rather than fight about a result he had warned her against. jump · 1:32:00
- How did Ryder's addiction start?
- Billy says it began with weed in high school and then moved to pain pills that a member of a family the Morrises were helping had access to. The boys would skip school, go across the street, and try them out of curiosity. He notes that addiction runs on both sides of the family - his own father was an alcoholic - and that Jenny, not Billy, was the one who first picked up the signs, from the sound of Ryder's voice on the phone to a twitch in his eye. jump · 2:13:18
- What happened the day Ryder died?
- It was three days before Hurricane Irma. Billy had left that morning after a hard word about Ryder blocking his car in and about needing help preparing for the storm. Two hours later Jenny called the ER to say Ryder was not breathing; Jenny performed CPR and Avery was on the phone with 911. Billy ran out of the ER, ran red lights, and was escorted the rest of the way by a sheriff's deputy. He says that after so many years in the emergency room he knew as soon as he walked in that his son was not coming back. jump · 2:29:01
- What should you say to a parent who has lost a child?
- Billy is direct about it: do not say God had a plan, and do not say he is in a better place. He calls them platitudes and says that in that moment a father does not want to hear about a plan, because his plan was to watch his son become a man. What he says works is simple - I am sorry for your loss, and anything I can do. He notes those were the words Keith used, and that every grieving parent he has talked to says the same thing. jump · 2:35:23
- What does Billy want people on the outside of a grieving family to do?
- He tells listeners not to just reach out once but to keep reaching out - ask if you can stop by, invite them to lunch, and do not be judgmental, because you do not know what is happening behind those four walls. He also urges people not to wait until their life is on the edge of destruction before getting help, and points to support groups and counseling. He says the isolation he and Jenny fell into almost destroyed the family, and that Satan loves it when you are isolated. jump · 2:57:25
Helpful links
other
- Laser Lounge Spa, Cape Coral Billy Morris's original aesthetics practice, opened about 12 years ago.
- Aesthetics Lounge and Spa, Babcock Ranch Billy's second and newest location, discussed in the business segment.
- Boots and Bubbles The episode's sponsor, a Southern style dirty soda business run by Keith Vance's two daughters in the Lee County area.
- I Can Only Imagine, by MercyMe Not a workout song, Billy says, but the one that opens him up emotionally in the gym.
- Amazing Grace The hymn Billy names as his song if he could only keep one.
product
- Naloxone (Narcan) The opioid overdose reversal medication that Jenny, Avery and the family now carry everywhere.
video
- Intervention (A&E series) The documentary series Billy had his children watch so they could see what addiction does to a life.
- Gross Anatomy (film) The movie whose medical school interview scene Billy had in mind during his own PA school interview.
ministry
- Cape Christian Fellowship The Cape Coral church Billy and Jenny attended when it still met in a school cafeteria under pastor Dennis Gingrich.
Full transcript
Intro voiceover: I learned the hard way, nothing's overnight, some days you lose, some days you survive. Still Strong, even moving slow, every step counts more than you know. I found gold in the everyday, showing up and staying brave. Still Strong, yeah, I stand my ground.
Keith Vance: Hey, you're supposed to be looking at me. I was waiting for him to tell me. He did already, he did that already, he gave us a thumbs up. Oh, okay, okay. Now I gotta start over.
Billy Morris: Oh, my bad. I'll try not to let him, put on some blinders.
Keith Vance: Billy Morris. Oh boy. Welcome to the podcast, brother. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Billy, I got a proper introduction here for you, I want to get it knocked out. All right. And then after that, we'll just go from there. Sounds good. So, Billy, you were born in Sanford, Florida. Florida. Yes, sir. Didn't realize that until this morning. My wife was raised in Sanford for a lot of years.
Billy Morris: Yeah, I was shocked too.
Keith Vance: Yeah, we go up there to visit her aunt every once in a while. Billy, you've been married to Jenny, 32 years. Mm-hmm. I met her before I met you. Yes, you did. She is an amazing person. She is, you got a good wife, boss.
Billy Morris: Yeah, I outpunted my coverage, absolutely.
Keith Vance: Billy, you have three children, but you lost one of them. And we're going to focus on that at some point today. It's one of the main reasons why you're here. You have a grandchild. I do. My peanut. How's that feel?
Billy Morris: Dude, you know, I had a buddy tell me one time, he's like, Bill, low-key, you're going to love your grandkids more than your kids. I get it now. You know, half the time I see Reith, I still want to punch him in the throat. But I can't get enough of the grandbaby. Jenny and I get her as often as we can.
Keith Vance: It's a different role. It really is. I don't know if I love him more or less. It's just a different role. It's not my job to train them, to raise them, to get after them. It's just my job to love them, show them unconditional love.
Billy Morris: And you know what I think it is? I really believe it's because, you know, we were busy making a life, making a family. Now that's done. And so when you get those grandkids, it's all about them. When they come over, we drop everything. It's all about Brielle when she's there.
Keith Vance: That's good stuff. Billy, you are a physician's assistant, which you've been doing for 23 years. Yes, sir. I want to talk about that. I appreciate people that are on the front lines. I feel like that's a calling. There's stuff that you see that I've never seen that you've got to deal with, and we need people just to get the job done. And for you to have done that for 23 years, I salute you. Thank you. You're a business owner for 12 years. You have two locations. You keep my wife feeling pretty.
Billy Morris: Dude, she is pretty. I don't have to do much. I said feeling pretty. I said looking pretty. She is pretty. Feeling pretty. She's pretty inside now. Yeah. You've got a good woman yourself. I do, man.
Keith Vance: I didn't know this about you. You are a whiskey connoisseur. Sure.
Billy Morris: I'm getting there. But, yeah, at night I like to have a little nightcap. And over the years, because I have friends that are really into it, so I've kind of learned. So, yeah, my wife might not be happy about it per se, but she indulges me. So, yeah.
Keith Vance: Another thing I didn't know, you're a fantasy football legend in your own words here. Yeah.
Billy Morris: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Keith Vance: Something you and your brother found to connect on.
Billy Morris: Absolutely. You know, my brother's four years younger than me. And when we were teenagers, we basically, like most brothers, just fought all the time. And when I moved down here, he stayed in Mississippi, which is where my mom's family's from. And he called me one day and said, hey, man, these guys invited me into this fantasy football league here at work, but he's not a sports guy. He didn't know anything about football and said, hey, can you help me pick this team? And so long story short, we actually won the league that year. He won like two grand. And now we have like 15 dynasty leagues that we're in, and it's brought us together as brothers. And now I went from barely talking to my brother in my mid to late 20s to now we talk almost every day and at least three to four times a week. That's cool. Yeah.
Keith Vance: Billy, we got here that fitness is your therapy. You and I connect on that. Oh, yeah. You're a fit guy, but it's more than just being fit. There's something there. And I want to talk about that too. As someone from in the medical. I'll see you next time. community. I want to dive into that. And then last of all, you're not a young cat anymore, man. I am not. 54 years old, going to be 55 this year. Yes, sir. And I think that's another thing you and I can connect on. I just turned 50 as we navigate age. How do we do it? And still, still try to do the things we've always done, but maybe have to pivot a little bit. And then again, with your insight, I'd like to dive into that a little bit.
Billy Morris: Yeah, absolutely. Well, good.
Keith Vance: Billy, it's been my protocol to kind of give my personal take on someone. And I could spend a lot of time here talking about you. When I felt the calling to do this podcast, I literally went through my phone. Everybody's on my phone and just jotted their names down on a notepad. People that inspired me. You're like top 10. The first thing that I... You made a longer list, brother. The first time that I met you, you're like me. You got kids. You hustle. But the hustle is for your family. Like I could tell you were a family man. I could tell that your daughter and boys were your everything. I connected with that. I also saw you took care of yourself physically. You're under a stressful job. A lot of people under stress, let themselves go. And no fault to them. I don't disparage anyone.
Billy Morris: Oh, yeah, yeah.
Keith Vance: But you took that under control. Like you were a fit guy.
Crosstalk: And then Billy,
Crosstalk: this came to mind. And I...
Keith Vance: My circle's small. Like I don't have a lot of friends that... Like my wife and I go out to dinner together. I don't have a bunch of friends that we go do things with. But when I think about you, even though you and I have never gone to dinner and over the last 10 years, we say, hey, we need to get dinner sometime. I've called you before and you've called me before. And I feel like... I feel like I'd call you at any time. I'd say, hey, dude, I need you. I feel like you would be there for me.
Billy Morris: You know, that is... And I think you really... I think guys like us tend to have small circles. But you know those people that, like you said, you know, hey, man, it's two o'clock in the morning. You need help with something. You know I'm going to pick up. And I'll do whatever. Because you have. Yeah.
Keith Vance: Because you have. No questions asked.
Billy Morris: Those type of people are rare to find.
Keith Vance: That's why your circle's small. But having said that, there's more... I have a lot of people like that in my life that I was... that was really unaware of. Like once I started... Tom Vargas, I had him on last week. He's another one of those guys. Like I could call Tom at any time. And I know that whatever... he would drop what he's got to come bail me out. And I'm thankful for people in my life that you just... You know, you can go a year without talking to them. But you know, at any time, they're going to be there for me. Yeah, yeah. And you are one of those people. And I just want to thank you for our friendship.
Billy Morris: Brother, I'm thankful. I appreciate it.
Keith Vance: I want to thank you for taking the time to be on here. I want to thank you for what we're going to talk about and just to be an open book. And I'm prayerful that God's going to use this, not only to sharpen one another here and now, but to whoever listens to this, it'll be what they need to hear. So before we get going, you know the routine. Still Strong. Richardson 112. My kids say they're the best. I know, right? You can represent us when you're doing your thing.
Billy Morris: Like I told you out there, though, I'm going to have to get a shirt to match it, though. Yeah, yeah.
Keith Vance: I'm redoing these shirts. My daughter-in-law is, we've been tweaking it. That's why I haven't been pushing the brand too much. We've been tweaking it, but I think we're almost there. Yeah, yeah. It looks good, brother. It looks good. Yeah, but something missing.
Billy Morris: Dude, that's what makes it good, though. You're a perfectionist, so.
Keith Vance: Working on it. There you go. All right, brother. So let's start from the top. Okay. Early age, what shaped you? Life as a Billy as a boy. The man you are now, where you came from? Mom and Dad, just give us the insight as a Billy the Kid.
Billy Morris: Yeah. Oh, gosh. So, again, born in Sanford. First, probably four or five years, that's where we lived. My father was in and out of my life. And actually, I want to say four or five, when my mom and dad divorced, we did move to Mississippi because that's where her family was. And actually, that was the best thing that ever happened to me, that I think about it as a little boy. Luckily, my mom's family was always very loving. She's one of seven. And so I had six aunts and uncles, cousins coming out the years. And my grandmother lived in a little house in a little town. in Moss Point, Mississippi. And that is actually what shaped my childhood. My mom and my grandmother, my grandmother, my great grandmother, and my great uncle all lived in the same house. And pretty much every weekend, my brother and I would go over there and spend time with my grandmother. And that's what shaped me. And my best friend, Shad Blevins, he lived right across the street from there. And so every weekend for us was going to grandmother's and seeing friends and being raised there. And such a close knit family. I mean, pretty much everybody, for the most part, lived within two hours of my grandmother's house. So every Thanksgiving, every Christmas, we could have 40, 50 people there in that little tiny house. And man, I look back on those times. And my gosh, I just miss them. You know, it's such a different world than it was now, or is now, I should say.
Keith Vance: When you just talked about the family being in such close proximity to grandma, I like had a flashback to what it was in Michigan at my grandma's house. Because you literally like painted the perfect picture. Like everybody lives close by and she was the hub of that unit.
Billy Morris: Yeah, she was the patriarch. And of course, you know, being Southern, you know, there wasn't, we didn't say grandma, great-grandmother. It was big grandma, little grandma. So, you know, my great-grandmother was a very tall, thin woman. And so she was, my little grandmother, four foot eight, shaped like a bowling ball. But my gosh, they just, I have told my kids multiple times, if I could give my left hand to go back and have one more Christmas there, I would do it. Really? I would do it. Oh, yeah.
Keith Vance: It's funny because those, like, I can feel what you're talking about because I have that family unit as well. But those, your grandmothers that you described, like my family, they were influencing us and shaping us. And we didn't even know it in real time. But looking back, looking back, you can, when you can see what they were doing and just, just the unconditional love and support, you know what I mean? And, and, and those early years as a child, when everything's being developed, that's, that could be the, the formula that makes or breaks somebody when you, when you have unconditional love as a kid and you, and you're being bolstered, but you know what? So-and-so might not like me, but my grandma loves me.
Billy Morris: Dude. And you know, it's funny. My mom used to tell me that, um, my other, um, aunts and uncles would get a little jealous because they knew that we were grandma's favorites. Um, my little grandmother was a little more partial to my brother and my big grandmother was a little more partial to me. I mean, they loved us and there was no, um, but the whole family, boy, I tell you, and you know, it's funny. I don't think you get it then. It's not until you get older that you can appreciate it. I mean, there were Christmases that I would not have had presents if it weren't for my aunts and my uncles, you know, my grandparents. And again, like I said, my dad wasn't really involved at that point, but I had three uncles that my uncle Clayton, you know, he's a state trooper. You know, he was Mr. Discipline. Taught me how to shoot a gun, taught me how to drive. It was my uncle Frank, who was the brainiac. He's one of those Mensa members, you know, he just thinks too much, but, um, always funny, always with a quick little sarcastic, you know, comment. And then there was my uncle Terry. And even though he was married into the family, I mean, he was my, and it was watching him and my aunt Faye and the way they loved each other. Wow. I mean, that guy would get up and say, baby, I got to go to the bathroom at the dinner table. And they would kiss for five minutes before he'd go to the bathroom, you know, stuff like that. And so I didn't appreciate that until I was probably late twenties, early thirties even, you know, and, but you look back on those times and you're like, man, that, that is, that's what shapes you. And my grandmother, both of them solid Christians, even into my marriage with, um, Jenny, um, you know, there would be times I'd be like, Hey, grandmother, we're trying to make a decision. Can you pray about it? And I knew her and my big grand or my uncle Bob would pray. And they would say, you know, because she had was so knowledgeable, her and my uncle Bob, um, with the Bible. I mean, they would say, well, the Bible says this, the Bible says that. And they would, you know, I mean, that was amazing to have, you know, um, my mom did the best she could. She was a single mom for the most part. Um, I love your mom, but you didn't have the greatest, the greatest. Voices in men. My dad wasn't the greatest guy, but. Let me ask you a question. Yeah, yeah. Do you know why they got divorced? Words mean things. And in my family, you know, you don't say things that you don't mean. Again, now I look back on it and it's taken me a long time to get to this point. I remember sitting with my mom one day in the car and I was like, Mom, why didn't you tell me dad was such an asshole? And she's like, son. You're smart. I knew you would grow up and figure it out on your own. If I tried to tell you that as a kid, you would have just been like, no, he's not. You're just you just don't like dad. You know, because like every teenager, you know, you fight with your mom and you're like, I want to go live with my dad or whatever. And she never talked bad about him. She let me figure it out on my own. And I think that went a lot further. Now, having said that, learning about my dad's past. He was sexually, physically abused as a kid. As a matter of fact, I remember seeing scars on his back and he would never talk about it. Now, my stepmother, who's been my stepmother since I was like six, Gwen, and she's a wonderful woman and herself. She would tell me. And those scars on his back were one day his his actual genetic father was very abusive, horrible. And I guess he did something one day to, you know, piss his dad off. And his dad said, start running. Really? And he shot him in the back with birdshot. Are you kidding me? No, no, no. My uncle Rick would tell me a story about how he did something to and my that grandfather, who I never met, passed away before I was ever born. And my dad took the took the blame for it and he beat him with a hammer. So things like that. So I will say my dad never laid a hand on my mom, myself or my brother. And so he did break that cycle. God bless him for that. He did do that. But he was just like emotionally dead. My mom even said he's just emotionally dead. And so he told her to leave. So she left. And when he came home and she wasn't there, she said that, you know, he called my grandmother and said, you know, Sharon left. And, you know, my mom was already there. And she's like, well, you told her to leave. They did remarry. Same thing. They went through another divorce. And like I said, I look back on it now. And even though, like I said, my dad was an asshole, but now I know why.
Crosstalk: Yeah. Let's stay here for a minute. Oh, yeah. Absolutely, man. Because there's something here. There's something here.
Crosstalk: What you just described about your dad as a boy. Mm-hmm. That's a run and shooting him with some birdshot. Mm-hmm.
Crosstalk: One thing, if that happened, if he was a man, when he knew who he was. Mm-hmm.
Keith Vance: But as a child, when your brain's being developed, you don't know who you are.
Crosstalk: Mm-hmm. And then that becomes a part of your psyche. Mm-hmm. And it's shaping you.
Keith Vance: And then that boy grows up shaped that way into an adult. And the way he perceives the world around him, the way that he handles himself with even his loved ones. Oh, yeah.
Keith Vance: Mm-hmm. And then that's what you said, you had to be with all your family that you just described. And you said, I will cut off my left hand to go back and live there because of the unconditional love you felt.
Billy Morris: Mm-hmm. Absolutely.
Keith Vance: You had, I'm not saying that your dad didn't, just a little sliver of life that you told me about. You had people around you that loved you unconditionally. Mm-hmm. Your dad's, dad, he's experienced abuse.
Crosstalk: Mm-hmm.
Crosstalk: Mm-hmm.
Crosstalk: I don't even know where to go with this. I just.
Crosstalk: Children are precious, man. Mm-hmm. Children are precious.
Crosstalk: Mm-hmm. And there's so many kids that I'm becoming aware of that in the.
Keith Vance: Spectrum of loving and nurturing, and the spectrum of what you just described with your dad, they're closer to that side. And I'm having a hard time with it, man. I'm having a hard time with it.
Billy Morris: I'm right there on that page with you. And that's why now I look back at my dad, and like I said, even though, but he broke that cycle, man. I mean, what in him broke, you know, mentally, emotionally, to make him that way when he was older? Again, now that I can look back on it, and I can appreciate that, I mean, you know, I mean, for all intents and purposes, you know, we see these abusers, they're victims of abuse themselves, right? And so, you know, again, it amazes me that he was able to break that.
Billy Morris: I just pray that, you know, it's funny, because the Bible tells you that only God knows a man's heart inside and out, right? So I, to this day, still kind of hope that my dad, you know, somewhere in there had made, you know, made his peace with God and was, you know, a believer. Because to me, even though, again, you know, I've been pretty critical of my dad, but man, what kind of, I mean, he was a strong guy to do that, to break that. Because, I mean, I know that there were, you know, were times, I mean, my mom would tell me that, you know, he and his brothers could clear out a bar, you know, they'd get in brawls and stuff. But to have the self-restraint to not put his hands on my mom. Yeah. Or me or my brother after the way he was raised, because that was normal to him. I hate to say that. And that's what's so heartbreaking to me. Is that upbringing broke him emotionally. And he tried his best. Yeah. And so, again, you know, now that I'm at the age I am, sadly, you know, you just. As a person. You got to have some experience before you come to that realization, right? Because you got to have some experience with how horrible the world can be. You know, I mean. You know, the darkness is the absence of the light, right? Yeah. And so, I mean, that was a dark world to live in. And I'm with you, you know, as we're finding out in these Epstein files and these child trafficking. I mean, I'm right there with you, man. This is such a dark world anymore. And I think people like you and I, we kind of cling to what light we can see. You know, I'm thankful that, you know, I'm saved. And, you know, my beliefs and my family and my wife, you know, give me that grounding that I need. You know? Yeah.
Keith Vance: So, let me think. There's three things here. You mentioned God's word. And just regard to your dad's story. Listen, man. Apart from the grace of God that intervened for us, we're all desperate, utterly hopeless, and totally lost. He did for us, but we can't do it for ourselves.
Crosstalk: No way. That's amazing love. So, there's one thing. Yeah.
Keith Vance: The other thing is, I've been impressed with this since I started doing this podcast. When you think you know something, you don't know it. You're only seeing a sliver into somebody's life. There's so much more to that pie. You know, in school, we learned about the pie chart. Absolutely. There's so much more there that you're not seeing. And I'm learning to, when people act a certain way, I'm learning just to, that guy's going through something, or he's been through something, and to try to show him some love of Christ that is not in me. Because what's in me is to bow up harder. But to just slow down and not be the judge-all, but to show some compassion, some love, and some humility, I don't think you can go wrong.
Billy Morris: Well, you know, it's funny. I have a shirt that I wear to the gym, and it says, be kind. And then on the back, it says, you don't know what someone's going through. I mean, it's tough to walk that, because like you said, you know, somebody's rude to you while you're checking out. But, you know, I don't know. Maybe their mom was just diagnosed with cancer or something. You know, so I'm with you. I try. It's hard, but man, I do try. I do try.
Keith Vance: The third thing, as you were talking, again, when it goes back to your family in Mississippi that lived in close proximity to your grandmother, and you went through and you talked about these people that had influence on your life, one of these days, people are going to be talking about you and me. I didn't think of it like that. and I want them to think of me the way that you just remembered your family members. And I heard it say that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer you get to the core, the faster it goes. And I feel that. And so feeling that every day, that life truly is short, and I'm getting close to that core. I'm trying to be more intentional with what matters. You know, my grandkids need something, or even other kids that aren't even related to me, just showing some love. So when I'm in the ground, everybody that means something to me felt my love and felt that intentionality that you described. I want that to mark my life.
Billy Morris: Well, I think as we get older, man, we kind of realize that, right? It's like, what legacy do you leave behind? And for me, you know, I've been pretty blessed. And this is where Jenny comes in. Jenny is a mother to everybody. That's true. I can't tell you how many kids I've had in my house, and not just to come over, but, you know, kids that were, you know, had a beef with their family, got kicked out. I mean, I could probably name 15, 20 kids that had stints where they were at my house because something was going wrong at theirs. And not to judge parents or the kids, because, you know, everybody's circumstances are different, right? But I don't know that I would have been that open to it if it wasn't for Jenny.
Crosstalk: And she has an amazing capacity to love. Yeah, she does.
Keith Vance: While you're collecting your emotions, there was a time when she came into the restaurant when not just your kids, but other kids that were living with you.
Billy Morris: Oh, yeah. Yeah, she would do that. She was always there for those kids. And even to this day, you know what's so funny is she will literally, like the other day, somebody texts her, and she's like, oh, you know so-and-so that was in fourth grade with Ryder, and then eventually, I'm like, no, I do not. Sorry, I don't remember. Show me a picture. Maybe I'll remember from the picture, you know. But she remembers those kids. And she still has kids. Ryder's friends, Reed's friends, Avery's friends, even though they're not here, they'll still reach out to her. On her birthday, my God, she's got like 40 kids that I'm like, who is that? And they, hey, Miss Jenny, happy birthday. Love you. So really, to be honest with you, she opened that part of me.
Crosstalk: And I think as men, we get hardened.
Billy Morris: And I think, gosh darn it, I'm going to get in trouble. But I really do believe there's a role for a man and a woman in this world that God prepared. Absolutely. It's obvious. I know. Well, for us, it's obvious, right? The world's losing it. But, you know, and it's like, you know, I don't suspect, I don't expect my wife to be subservient. But when you put that in context of, you know, I should be the spiritual leader of the family, right? And I think today, too many people, they lose what Christ did for the church, right? Christ died for his bride. So, so many people today think that it's an equality issue. It is equal, but it's equal in a divine sense that God set up, right? Yes. We're the protectors. We're the ones that are supposed to keep our family safe. We're the ones that are supposed to walk through the door first, you know, walk through that valley of death, lead it there, you know, with God guiding us, of course. But they're the lovers, the nurturers. And that's why, you know, when we get to that point, losing Ryder, as much as it affected me, he didn't grow inside of me for nine months. He wasn't my delivering a life. Yes. Making life. Yes. And that's why, you know, now, you know, I think mothers that lose children, I mean, don't get me wrong. You've seen how it shattered me as well. But I just think mothers are on a different level, man. Could you imagine something growing in you for that long? And then, you know, I mean, again, I go back to that circle of life that, you know, I think is divine and the way God created the family. There was a reason for that.
Keith Vance: Here's my philosophy on that. There is structure. God made structure for the family unit. He made men physically stronger. He made us able to carry weight. Amen. You made the woman the weaker vessel. It's biblical terminology, not my terminology, God's terminology. You made her the weaker vessel physically for us to provide and protect and to make secure. But you're right. They have an intuition and a love that we don't have, that nurturing for those children.
Keith Vance: But as men, we are the leaders of the home. It doesn't mean we're the smartest. My wife is a lot smarter than me. Like I bounce so many things off of her, but at the end of the day, it's my, I make the call. Somebody has to make the call. I feel like it's my responsibility to make the call. But we use what God gave us, our strength to serve the family, not from the top, not because I said so. Yeah. But we serve from the bottom. We carry them from the bottom. We serve, we lead from the bottom because we are the strongest. We are, God built us with a capacity to provide, protect. It gets wrong when we get ourselves out of alignment and we use our role as a domineering effect over that. That's where it's wrong. When you use your strength to dictate your will. No, no, no, no, no. You use your strength as you're following Christ and what he says go this way. Hey, family, we're going this way and you bolster from the bottom.
Billy Morris: And I think, you know, to be honest with you, it takes a little while for at least it did for me to figure that out. And that I mean, don't get me wrong. I was never domineering. Jenny's Jenny's Jenny wouldn't stand for that. But but she like I said, her opening up that emotional part of me. And don't get me wrong. I've always been a pretty thoughtful person. I don't react. well let me rephrase that i try not to just react right but there comes a point in time where you have to kind of realize that balance i think as well and i think that a lot of marriages they don't figure that balance out and that's why i think we see so many marriages failing now you know it's like uh you know how come how come a wife won't follow her husband?
Keith Vance: How come a wife will follow her husband? If the husband is in proper relationship with God and the Word of God, and he's treating his wife biblically, where she feels secure, where she feels loved, where she feels that man would die for me, she would have no problem following you anywhere, brother. Exactly. Because she feels secured and loved and she trusts you. Because the decisions you're making aren't for your own pride, not for your own selfish motivation, what you want. You're making a decision based out of a love for her. Absolutely. When a woman feels that, she'll follow you anywhere. So you've got to ask yourself, how come my wife is always resisting me? Well, double check. Is it because you're making her feel insecure? Does she not feel loved by you? Just feel like everything you do is for what you want.
Billy Morris: What's out of balance. Exactly. Yeah, I will look any camera in the eye and I will say, if I had to hide the body, Jenny would help me drag it out there. So I've been very, very blessed. You know, and as a matter of fact, I talk, you know, I tell people, you know, that I wish my kids would find their Jenny. Because, man, she just made me a better person.
Keith Vance: that's good stuff we we stumbled across this by accident but we can stay right here i'm gonna go wherever you go i i feel like it's meant to be my wife was 14 i was 16 when we met um and same um i want my kids to find what i found and uh i got five girls two boys and then when my girls are navigating through this and there's some people that are just, I just, I don't need to meet them. I can, like, I already know this ain't the one, like I don't need to meet them. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but when my girls, I said, listen, I just want you to find what I found with my boys. I just want you to find what I found and don't rush it because there is someone out there. Don't rush it, man.
Billy Morris: Yeah. Well, you know, it's funny you say that because, um, uh, when Jenny and I met in, uh, so this story is, um, she picked me up at a bar. I mean, you know, that's the short version, but what happened was, um, you know, I was in college. I was tired of going out. I partied enough and not, I never drank, didn't smoke, didn't drink. I wouldn't do anything well into my 40s before I even started to have a little whiskey here and there, right? And so, I wanted to go home. My buddies wanted to go out, and because I didn't drink, because who's always a designated driver? Sure. Yeah. And they're like, man, come on, we just want to go. And the club's name was Resurrection, because it was on a Sunday night. So, they just called it Resurrection. It was a lot of the EDM house music, right? Right. So, I was like, okay, fine, I'll go. Dude, I sat in a chair the whole time. One of my buddies was next to me in a chair, and he had a little too much to drink and kind of passed out a little bit. And we were under one of those black lights. And I don't know if you know that extra gum, it's called, but it's like fluorescent green. It was half hanging out of his mouth, so it was like glowing. All of a sudden, these two girls in the sky were laughing and pointing at him. And they came up, and they're like, oh, is he okay? I'm like, yeah, he just passed out. That was Jenny. And she's like, hey, do you want to dance? And I'm like, hot girl, I'm alone. Sure, let's dance. And actually, that was the first night we met. We danced a little bit, and actually, the club closed, and we exchanged numbers. One of my buddies was missing. We couldn't find him. So we literally walk out into the parking lot, and we see him lying on the ground, passed out, with these people turning him over. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, what happened? So we walk up. The people turning him over were Jenny, Pam, and Daniel. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. One of my buddies with me, I'll tell you how college kids are, walked up, and rather than my buddy Tom was the one that was passed out. Rather than try and wake him up, he kicks him, right? Well, I'm standing over him, so Tom looks up and sees me, so he punches me. Hit me right in the, you know, where you shouldn't hit a guy. And reactively, I just kind of gave him a little jab, right? Jenny didn't see that, so she told her friends as they were leaving later, she's like, I would never go out with him. He's a beefy jerk. Oh, I'm talking about you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She thought I just hit him for no reason. And so I call her like a day or two later, and we start talking. And one Pam, I guess, did see Tom hit me, and she's like, you know, that he hit him first. It's kind of a reaction. So I asked her out. We went out, and actually our first date was we went to Lake Eola in Orlando, walked around the lake. And, you know, it's such a funny story, but she didn't want to go out that night either. She said she only went because she was designated driving for Daniel and Pam. And I remember we're just walking around the park, you know, talking and everything. And she tells me, she's like, you know, I'm not ready to be in some type of sexual relationship with a man. And I just looked at her and I go, me neither. So, but, you know, I look back at that, and what a great thing. I mean, even though she, because we weren't basing it on attraction at that point in time. And that was new to me. I think Jenny was a little more, you know, in that she, you know, as we talked and getting into a relationship, she's always like that in that, you know, she had pride in herself. And like I said, it was just from there, just, you know, you know, two years later, we're married, and here we are now, 32 years later, 34 altogether. It's good stuff.
Keith Vance: I know, it's crazy. Let's move on to something else.
Keith Vance: Your life as a physician's assistant, how did that come about?
Billy Morris: Believe it or not, Jenny's dad. Not only was I blessed with Jenny, but I was blessed with really good in-laws. Richard Ryder, her father, and Kathy. They were divorced, but Kathy was such a loving person and very sweet and kind, and they just treated me well. When I got my degree initially in physical therapy, there was a time where her father, Dick, well, that's what everybody called him. And Dick was like, you know, would you be interested in going to medical school? And I was like, we already had two kids because we had Ryder and then had Reith while I was in school for physical therapy. And then I was like, that's a long time. I got two kids. You know, I'm already sacrificing time with them when I was in school. So even though I tried, I mean, you know, the funny thing is I would, that's how I became a night owl. I mean, you know, I was like, I'm sorry, but I'm sorry, but I'm sorry, but I'm sorry, but I'm sorry, but I'm sorry. Because I would help in work, and then when Jenny would go to bed, I would study. So there would be nights I'd be up studying until 2 a.m. Wow. But it worked out well because Jenny would get up. I would give the feedings at midnight and then like at 2 a.m., and then I would go to bed. So when they were ready to get up at 6, Jenny had a pretty good night's sleep. So it worked out pretty well.
Keith Vance: Hit the pause button. I didn't know this about you. Yeah. So for some reason, I thought you were in college to be.
Billy Morris: No, no. My first occupation was in physical therapy.
Keith Vance: So you're doing this while you have a family.
Billy Morris: Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah.
Keith Vance: That's – I never – I just – I don't know why I didn't know that, but I never knew that. So, wow. So you're really sacrificing for this. Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah.
Billy Morris: Well, like I said, Dick was the first one to bring it, and he offered to pay for it to send me to medical school. That's good. Wow. Yeah, yeah.
Keith Vance: So you can't let him down. No. You can't quit.
Billy Morris: Well, what happened was, sadly, soon thereafter, he was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. And so at that point, we put everything on hold because we had to take care of – well, let me rephrase that. During the day, my wife would be there at his house helping to take care of him. And I would go over at night, and I would spend the night because I was the only one that could really get him out of bed towards the end, help him use the bathroom and that type stuff. And he and Kathy were the reason we decided to have children early because they didn't – you know, they had one grandchild. But, you know, Jenny wanted to have more for them, basically. I mean, of course, we wanted kids. But what I'm saying is we would have probably waited a little bit, but it wound up being the right thing. Again, it's amazing how God works because five years, four or five years, Dick had got to be like the wonderful grandfather that he was. And Kathy got to be the wonderful grandmother that she was. And, you know, he would just stop by and say, hey, I'm going to pick up Ryder. I got some chores. I'm going to grab Ryder and take him with me. And he taught Ryder how to fish, and you know what a big fisherman Ryder was. And even at the end, when Dick was really wasting away, we had him at his house on Pine Island. We moved him downstairs, and he lived on a canal in Boquilio. And Ryder would come over and fish, and every fish he caught, he would walk up to the double sliding glass doors where Dick was in bed and hold it up so his grandfather could see the fish.
Crosstalk: I wish I'd had more time with him. At the time, he was my best friend.
Crosstalk: We'd go out on the weekend with a boat. He was just a great guy.
Billy Morris: Funny as can be. We used to go to Cape Christian Fellowship when it had first started. And I don't know if you know, but that's a huge church in the Cape. We used to meet in a school cafeteria. And I remember we took Dick and his wife, Joy, at the time. And Dennis Gingrich, great guy. He was the pastor. And I remember introducing to the pastor, and Dick was like, hey, how are you? My name's Dick Ryder. This is my wife, Joy Ryder. Get it? So I was like, we're going to get struck by lightning right here in church. I mean, he was just always funny, always a great guy. I mean, like I said, Jenny blessed me not just with his, but actually with great in-laws. You know, I've got a great, you know, sister-in-law and a good brother-in-law. So, I mean, to be honest with you, I mean, it's funny, man, you look back at the journey. Wow. Just sitting here talking about this, it's so amazing to me that I wound up where I am. It's crazy, right?
Keith Vance: It really is. It really is. I've, what's your, the emotion you're feeling right now? I've been feeling like this for about a month. I think part of it is doing this podcast. It's just, how did I get where I'm at? How did I get here so soon? And then as you look back, just having these forgotten memories and just like having gratitude and bumpy road, man, bumpy road. But in time, you look back at those, those bumps in the road, then there's, there's nuggets of things there that you gleaned from that, that caused something in you for your gratitude to grow, for you to want to be more intentional with your love for people. That, I mean, you're, you're talking about your uncle. Death has a way of reminding you that life is short and we need to make sure the ones around us know we love them. I mean, every time you talk about your uncle here, you're like, how he invested in you and like, You're getting emotional about it. But death is hard. Death is hard for the Christian. It's just the gateway into something glorious. But it does remind us what we're here for and to invest in others.
Billy Morris: And see, you're getting that sitting here talking to everyone. You're seeing how those dots kind of connect. And by sitting here talking about it, I can think about it, but sitting here talking about it, I'm starting to see them too. Because like I said, he wanted to send me to medical school. I said no. Well, after he passed away, I was like, maybe I should apply. Maybe I should. I don't want to become a doctor, but why don't I apply to PA school? And again, I was lucky. I shouldn't say lucky. I was blessed there. I applied one time to one school. They had over 600 applications for 40 spots. And I got in. Wow. Now, once I'm in, we found out Jenny was pregnant with Avery. So we had to decide, do I want to start now or wait until after Avery was born? So, man, sitting here talking about this. Now it's just so. Sorry, just cut me off. I'm a long winded, brother. No, no. But get through it. We, so I applied one school one time. They invite me over. They say, listen, we want you to come over for an interview. I only applied thinking, hey, they'll have my name. So maybe next year when I apply again, they'll be like, hey, this Bill Morris guy applied. Let's let's bring him over. No, I get the call. Luckily, luckily, one of my good friends at the time was from Miami because it was over in Miami where they where I had applied to school. Miami Dade College and then in conjunction with Nova Southeastern. And so I went over and my buddy knew right where everything was. So we went over the night before. So the next day I get up, I go and there are 16 of us in this room. And I'm talking to this one guy. I still remember his name, Chris. And he's like, yeah, I was here last year. I didn't get in. But thank God, you know, they called me back. And I'm like, great. And I'm like, well, what happened? Why didn't you get in? He's like, I didn't know the mission statement for the school. And I was like, really? He's like, yeah. I was like, well, what is it? He's like, I'm not telling you. I mean, I'm his competition, right? I'm his competition. And this is before the phones. It's not like I could pull it up and go, hey, what's the mission statement here? You know, I'm like, holy cow. So I go in. Have you ever seen the movie early 90s called Gross Anatomy with Matthew Modine and Daphne Zeninga?
Keith Vance: I know the movie, but I don't remember anything about it.
Billy Morris: Well, at the beginning, he's interviewing at all these med schools. I just want to help people. Reject it. You know, I want to provide great health care. Reject it. Finally, they show him he's in a chair like this in an interview. And they're like, why do you want to be in med school? And he goes, I want to be rich. And he gets in. And I told Jenny, I'm like, I'm going to say that. If they ask me, I'm going to say it. And she was like, no, you're not. They asked me. And I didn't say that, but I said, well, I'm not going to lie. My bank account would be happier. Dude, they just all busted out laughing. Wow. So I actually said it. And then they asked me the mission statement for the school. And I said, well, you know, I guess that depends on who you talk to and what you read. I said, but from everybody, thing that I can gather around, you guys want to provide quality health care to an underprivileged community. That was it. I totally made that up on the spot just from talking to these people and walking around. So I walked out and I went up to that guy, Chris, and I'm like, dude, they asked me. He's like, what did you say? And I told him, he's like, that was it. He's like, that's what their mission statement is. He's like, you made that up. I said, totally came to me out of nowhere. I made it up. Nice. So then, you know, we have to wait for admissions again. You know, this is before emails and everything are flying left and right. But I knew I got in because I came home one day and there was a trail of letters from the mailbox going up to my front door. Jenny got the letter, opened it up, couldn't believe I got in. So she's dropping mail as she's calling her sister and everything. So I walk in and she's like, oh my God, you got in. Wow. Now, why did I get in? After I got in, I found out there was a physical therapist in the class ahead of me, the first one that had ever gotten into the program, and she was killing it. Oh. So she was doing so good because a lot of the people that are in PA are nurses. We had respiratory therapists. We had paramedics. Dude, we had doctors from other countries. They couldn't get certified for their MD here. So they would go to, and then this one physical therapist, she got in, was killing it, doing a great job. So I'm sure they're like, well, let's open this up. Hey, here's another physical therapist. What's on earth? What's on earth? Let's see what he can do. You know, after I graduated, I think they stopped admitting us. No, I hope I kept the door open for us. But, man.
Keith Vance: You know, it's funny is you just sparked a memory. My daughter, Brooke, she works for me now in one of the businesses I have. She's a processes person. You know what I mean? She's asked Michael. But when we had the deli, she worked, you know, running tables and just multitasking. You know what I mean? I remember. And then she went to Edison, and the goal was to get into nursing. The nursing program wasn't open yet, so she said, well, I'm waiting for that. I might as well just go work for a hospital.
Keith Vance: And when she went to go work for the hospital, they asked her, you know, what her background was. And it was, well, my dad used to own a restaurant, and I used to, you know, wait tables and, you know, whatever. And they hired her because of that, because they found out that people like wait, that people that work in restaurants are very good at multitasking. And you have to multitask in the hospital. It's controlled chaos, man. So when you talked about, hey, this physical therapist girl is killing it, there are these metrics and these mechanisms that people are suited for certain things in life based on their background. So I can testify that Brooke got in working for the hospital because she was good at multitasking and working with dad.
Billy Morris: Like I said, man, it's controlled chaos. And, you know, and that is the thing. I mean, and that's where there are times when Jenny will be mad at me because I'm not. I don't want to say emotional. But I don't panic. And I guess panic. But it's like I can't. Because if I lose it in the ER in front of patients, and I tell patients, and I'm like, listen, if I'm not running around yelling orders at people, you're probably going to be okay. If you see me running around yelling orders and we need to worry. And to be honest with you, even if I thought I needed to do that, I wouldn't do it. But it gives them that sense of, okay, okay, maybe it's not as bad as I thought it was. Right. And you just can't panic in those situations.
Keith Vance: So having said that, this is a good transition. Having said that. That lifestyle. Can we just live here for a few minutes? Just teach me some of those emotions. Like what you just said. Speak to that in more depth in a wider spectrum. Like the life that you live. And I know you're backing away from it now. You only work a few days a week now. But explain that lifestyle to me. Maybe the different things that come through that you've got to see and deal with. Maybe even some specific instances where something may be, man, this is the one that's going to crush me. But what's it like to live in your world for, say, a week?
Billy Morris: Yeah. Well, like I said, it is controlled chaos. And, you know, you do. You run the whole gamut of emotions. I mean, you see everything. You know, and then you see the miracles. I mean, you see the things like, oh, my God, this guy should not have survived this. You know, some accident or something. But I've also been in the room with five or six people that have killed their children. You know, and so it's like so you get everything in between that. Right. You know, from the, oh, I got a toothache to, I mean, people that are having an active heart attack right in front of you and you're trying to save their lives and get them to the cath lab. Right. And so your emotions run. I mean, fight or flight, right? I mean, it's one or the other in there. And to be able to critically think under pressure and to make decisions and to know that you can make every right decision and that patient may still die. And that's the hard part. You know, I have a great respect for my attendings. You know, I've had some really good mentors in the ER, Dr. Alex Rohde, Dr. Timothy Doherty, you know, and even more. I've worked with great people. Dr. Bob Esposito, Dr. Michael Kudnick. I mean, I could go on and on. I mean, you know, Burley, Schultz, again, all great guys and all good doctors. And even those guys, and now most of them haven't been in the ER as long as me. That's, you know, when the doctors look like Doogie Howser to me, I know I've been there probably a little too long. Doherty's been there longer than me. But, man, there are cases that even those guys, and me, as hardened as we are, because you do, you have to be. There are times when you run a case and you just have to step out for a minute. Pose yourself. And not just for you, but for the families. You know, there's nothing harder than sitting in a room and, you know, telling a family that they just lost a loved one.
Keith Vance: So not only are you doing the work, the medical work that needs to get done, you're dealing with the emotions of the family as well. Like it's not just where you can just go in, do your job. There's other dynamics that you're talking about. I want you to don't lose your thought, but I was just curious. You said, hey, maybe I've been there too long. I'm like the older guy now. What's the average duration of someone that sticks with us? Is it 10 years?
Billy Morris: Well, as a PA, I can bounce around. So like I can literally work with a dermatologist for a year. I can go work for a urologist, neurology. But those but the guys in the ER, they're like Dr. Doherty. He's actually board certified in toxicology as well. So he could do something different. But once you're in there talking about the ER. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You're in the ER when you're a physician, right? You're stuck there, basically. I mean, you can always go. But for the most part, that's where they're going to stay. So those guys normally last.
Billy Morris: 20, 25 years, I think you kind of have to be a little bit of an adrenaline junkie. Most PAs, same thing. We're in there 20 years plus, a lot of us.
Billy Morris: And the grind becomes, this is where it shows. It doesn't necessarily show physically, especially like for, you know, guys like us. I mean, I'm going to the gym. I'm going to do it because, again, that's where I kind of clear my mind, right? But it shows up, your empathy kind of dies. That's what I was wondering. Yeah. And there was times where Jenny would, you know, Reith would fall off his bike. She would elbow me and go, would you at least go over there and act like you care? You know? So, because again, I see horrific things in there, right? And it's like, okay, so he's got a scratch knee, big deal. But he's four years old and he's crying. Yeah. And it's like, so again, that's another area Jenny has to ground me in.
Keith Vance: Oh, understood. Yeah. Get up and act like you care. So that's why the emotion came out earlier when you talked about your wife counterbalancing you. Yes. Because you're talking about this stuff right here. Yeah. Makes sense now. Yeah.
Billy Morris: Because we, I mean, you know, with what you do, you deal with assholes all the time. And you just kind of have to have that wall up, right? We carry that home sometimes. And, you know, it's funny. I didn't have as much a problem with Avery. I mean, I did at times, you know, but the little girls just, you know, especially after you've had two boys, little girls just kind of wrap you, right? But there were still times, even with Avery, Jenny would be like, would you go over there and pick her up and hold her? You know? Because, again, it didn't like, but it's just like, because I see such bad stuff sometimes. It just doesn't register on that bad scale. Right?
Keith Vance: God knew you needed your wife.
Billy Morris: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.
Keith Vance: To help keep you grounded.
Billy Morris: Yeah, yeah. But, man, like, I will tell you that the only time that the ER is quiet is when we're working a kid. And we do. We develop gallows Schumer. I hate to say it, but there could be a 50-year-old in there that we're intubating, you know, doing chest compressions, and we're still kind of talking and joking a little bit. I mean, nothing serious, joking, but it's like, you know, just a little, but it is a defense mechanism, man. I can see that. You have to lighten it. But with a kid, there is no lightening that. And, you know, there was one day, I still remember this story. I came in, 6 a.m. shift. I walk in, and Dr. Fortier is there, and I look down. There's like seven or eight charts sitting there, and it's quiet. So I knew either the ER was empty or something was wrong. But seeing seven charts there, it wasn't exactly empty. And Glenn looks at me and goes, hey, man, I'm sorry we didn't get to these charts. We just had a kid. We were working for a while. And I'm like, hey, man, no problem. I got it. You know, I pick them up. I go see all the patients and put in orders, come back. And Glenn looks at me and goes, you might know this kid. Two weeks earlier, we had a kid in there. I was working with Dr. Kuhn, and we had this kid that wound up having bilateral skull fractures. Looked normal, was acting normal. Story was dog knocked the baby over and, you know, hit his head, right? And we – he had to go up to Tampa General. And so – And so – Fred did the right thing that night. I mean, anything like that, we have to get in contact with DCF and let them kind of go over and do a quick investigation. They cleared everything. But two weeks later, that kid wound up in RER, and he was dead. And that's what I mean. That's why Glenn said, he's like, you might know this kid. And I immediately said, please don't tell me it was the kid with the skull fracture. And he was like, yeah, it is. And that's what I said. There are just times where it's just so, you know, and how do you react to that? I mean, it's not your kid, obviously, but dude, that's somebody's child.
Keith Vance: Yeah. And that's why I say I'm thankful for you and for people who have the ability to do that kind of work.
Keith Vance: Because...
Crosstalk: We talked about things shaping us. We talked about your dad, that early trauma, how it shaped him. Mm-hmm.
Keith Vance: I don't know how, if I would be able to process that stuff, how I would be able to process it. And I'm just kind of like putting myself in your shoes. Now I know why people become alcoholics. Now I know why people find these escape mechanisms that are not good for us. Yeah. Because the work is easy. Mm-hmm. It's the dealing with the humanity part. And then what do you do? That's what I'm trying to get at. When you said you had six charts there, and there's six different layers of emotion that you're going from one to the next to the next to the next. How does the human body freaking process that? You know what I mean? How does it process that? How does it process that when you're talking about this, and then you got to move on to the next one? And then do you sleep at night? Do you lay up all night just thinking like, I could see how it would catch me up in this perpetual...
Billy Morris: Well...
Keith Vance: And then you got to get and go to work the next day and do it all over again.
Billy Morris: Well, you know, of those six charts, you know, one might be a toothache. But still, you're like, really, are you freaking here for a toothache?
Keith Vance: But they still need your care. They still need your... But do they.
Billy Morris: See, that's the mindset you get in. Because it's like, is this really a freaking emergency? Got it. Again, and don't get me wrong, and I'll kind of lead up to something that happened again that kind of made me, you know, step back and have to look at myself. But when you get enough of that, man, it's like, dude, you're, you know, are you really here for a toothache? Take some Tylenol. Go see a dentist. But not everybody has the fun to see a dentist, right? Understood. Yeah. So you might go from that to, again, the kid. You know, we're trying to save this kid's life. And here's the part that we as first responders, ER people, like in the midst of that chaos, you'll have some guy walk out and go, hey, can you get my wife a blanket? She's cold.
Keith Vance: Oblivious. And you just want to go over there and punch him in the face because you just said that. And I want to punch that person in the face right now.
Billy Morris: Well, not only that, but it isn't oblivious. He sees us running back and forth. He sees the ambulance come in. You know, you have paramedic on the guy doing compressions. Go by his room. And he's like, my mom's feet are cold. Can you grab her a blanket? I'm like, dude, your legs aren't broken.
Keith Vance: Yeah. Walmart's down the road.
Billy Morris: Google wears the socks. I mean, you know, I know your mom's sick. Don't get me wrong. And we're getting her. But it's like, you know, we're, you know, this guy's straddling this man doing chest compressions. We need to kind of prioritize here. Yes. You want to give them a good, nice, what I used to call TPT, throat punch therapy. Just, you know, it is. It's like, who cares about what's going on over there?
Keith Vance: I think another good point, because this isn't a hotel where people are serving you. They're not your staff. These are people that, I mean, you're there to serve the community, but you're doing it work. So I would have a hard time with that.
Billy Morris: Oh, Dr. Google. Dr.
Keith Vance: Google plays a big role in that. I think I would be fired from running my mouth with somebody that said, hey, my mom needs a blanket while I'm doing something like that. I think I would.
Billy Morris: Well, after being in the ER that long, there are times I say stuff I probably should not say, but I've been there so long. It's like, you know, I can get away with a little bit more than most people. Because you bring value. Well, just because I'm an old crusty man now. Wow. Get off my lawn, you kids. You know, that's kind of.
Keith Vance: That's where I've always wanted to be in life, and I'm almost there. I've always wanted to be there. A lot closer than you are. You can just be old, say what you want, and nobody can do anything because you're old. And you just pretend like you're C now.
Billy Morris: I mean, Dr. Kuhn, before we used, before he retired, a story that I just remember that just, I literally, I was waiting outside the door to this room. He was talking to the patient because I needed to ask him a question on another patient. And Lady was. How do you get on the phone? How do you get on the phone? How do you get on the phone?! and she was there for leg swelling. And I just remember he looked at her and he goes, how do you know?
Billy Morris: I had to walk away from the doorway because I just started busting out laughing because, I mean, there are times that you go, oh, my leg is so swollen. And you look and it's like, I don't see anything there. But, I mean, you know, what do you say?
Keith Vance: But he was just past that point as to where he just did humor. Humor is a mechanism. When you're dealing with this stuff every day, you've got to be humorous about it. Yeah, of course, of course. It's got to go somewhere.
Billy Morris: Yeah. And, again, you know, a lot of people, you know, see it as, oh, these people are sick. But really it isn't. It's like you said, I mean, my gosh, I would be depressed every day of my life, you know? I do think it gives you a feel as you get older and you're in medicine longer. I do believe it gives you that, like, I am blessed. You know what? I mean, look at me. Like we said, we're talking earlier. I'm a type 2 diabetic now. I mean, I control it with diet and exercise and everything. But, man, I see guys 35, type 1 diabetics. They don't take care of themselves. You know, they're getting their legs amputated and stuff because they just don't have the willpower or the want to control it. I mean, there are some diabetics that's just so bad and they're really hard to control. Don't get me wrong. But, man, you know, I kid Jenny all the time, you know, like she orders ice cream somewhere and she'll offer me a bite. I'm like, I want to keep my toes. Yeah. I'd like to keep those.
Keith Vance: I need to take a break. Yeah. But before we do, and this can change, but I want to hear about your fitness. You just spoke to a little bit. I want to talk briefly or not so briefly about your fitness. I want to talk about what life is for you as a business owner also on top of everything else. And then I want to save enough time to talk about your children, to talk about Ryder and that whole process. Oh, absolutely. And so if you can kind of remember that, let's take a break. This part of the podcast is brought to you by Boots and Bubbles. This is a special one for me, man. This is my two girls, 15 and 17. Boots and Bubbles specialize in Southern style dirty sodas, an alternative to your regular boring soda. If you're in the Lee County area and you want to book them for an event, find the link in the bio. In the meantime, let's get back to the show. All right, brother, we're back. All right. Let's talk about some fitness. Okay. So I know because you and I are friends, our fitness has a deeper meaning than just, you know, being strong. Although I do want to be strong. There's correlation. And I'm glad with your background, you can talk to a lot of this stuff in depth, but there's, there's correlation to longevity and strength. The longer you can retain your strength, the better. Um, but for me, um, my fitness is all about my mental health, my state of being like, it's just, it's therapy for me. So your fitness, how did you get into fitness? What are you doing now? Like, just, just live here for a little while.
Billy Morris: Oh yeah, man. Well, you know, it's so funny, you know, as a kid, um, I wanted to play football, you know, for the high school football team. So I needed to start working out. I don't know if you remember, remember the old DP weights, the cement weights with the plastic over it. That's how I started. I had a barbell and it might've been 35 pounds. I don't even remember, but I started out doing like, you know, curls in my bedroom, shoulder presses, stuff like that. And then of course, once you're on the team, then you get access to the gym. So for many years, I basically just worked out to be as big and as strong as I could be for football. High school. Yeah, correct. Got it. And, um, believe it or not, I played middle linebacker and center. My two positions. Yes. Yes. And, um, uh, in high school, um, Van Cleve high school, um, we only had 37. So we all had to play both ways and special teams. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As a matter of fact, our quarterback, Michael hip who ran CNC feed here for a while. Oh, he was my quarterback. That's cool. I don't know how he wound up down here. Well, same thing. He married a girl that brought her down here, but funny story was just real quick. I know I went into CNC feed. I was buying horse feed and he's like, he's looking at my credit card and he's like, Bill Morris. And I'm like, yes, sir. He's like, you don't remember me. And I'm like, uh, I mean, back in the eighties, you know, this is like 88, 89, you know, Mike had the mullet with the little porn stash and now here he is, you know, he's clean shave and he's big. He's. probably 30, 40 pounds heavier than he was in high school. And I'm like, no, sorry, brother. I don't remember you. And he's like, it's Mike Hipp. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. So funny story anyways. But we so, again, you go from that into college and you're still in your 20s and everything. Right. So at that point, I mean, all you want to do is be huge.
Keith Vance: You know, you want to work out and be as strong as you can. Especially back then. Yeah, of course. Like the bodybuilders were the big thing. Dorian Yates. Like those guys were like your idols. Painy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I get it. I remember that time frame. Yeah.
Billy Morris: Yeah. You know, it's funny. I laugh because, you know, now when we see those guys like, oh, yeah, they're eating right and using the weeder principles. That's right. No GH or anything.
Keith Vance: But Hulk Hogan, take your vitamins. Yeah, exactly. Drink your milk.
Billy Morris: Exactly. Yeah. But, you know, again, through even when Jen and I got married, I mean, I was still working out. I'd usually, you know, hit the gym at least four or five times. I mean, now that I'm older, man, I need that recuperation time. And that's funny because, as you said, your fitness kind of changes. If I were to if I were to have the perfect workout, what I would like to do, I'd like to have a little bit of everything. I'd love to do. We've discussed some Brazilian jujitsu. I'd love to do some of that. I mean, you box. I would love to do some of that. I'd still love to go to the gym and lift weights. I'd still like to do some CrossFit. I would do a little bit of everything because I think if you do one thing too long, it just gets boring, even though you can always switch it up and, you know, try different movements. That's what I'm into now. I mean, those days of me, there was a time when I was, you know, I had a bench press in the 400s.
Keith Vance: I know you did. You told me there was a time when I was feeling like strong and I was just curious how strong I was. And I made the mistake of asking you and like, nevermind. Nevermind.
Billy Morris: Well, there's a reason why my shoulders hurt now because they didn't agree with the bench press that high either. So, um, but you know, now I do, I don't do near as much weight, but I make sure I get a really good range of motion, full stretch with everything. You know, if I can get on a machine that rather than just do plain bench, now I get on machines where I'm getting an extreme stretch, you know, cause again, I can't do those heavyweights like I used to, man. It just wears out my shoulders and stuff. Now I will still deadlift heavy and I will still, um, squat, not quite as heavy, but I'll still do those things because man, I mean, nothing releases, you know, growth hormone like those guys.
Keith Vance: Isn't that the truth? So, um, curious at 55, what's your deadlift? What's your squat?
Billy Morris: I can do 405 for about eight to 10 reps on deadlift. That's good. Yeah. Um, I can, if I really pushed it and I haven't in a while, cause as we're talking, there was one day I got up and I only had 225 on the bar. All I did was get under it and back up like I was about to squat and it felt like somebody shot me in the back. Oh, I wasn't even squatting. I'm like, thank you. That's what fifties does to you. Oh. Cause I didn't even do a damn thing. I had to rack it and limp out of the gym. So I haven't gone real heavy in a while, but I mean, 450. I can get one rep, good, good rep out of it.
Keith Vance: Yeah. You're strong.
Billy Morris: I'm like an old piece of gristle, man. I've been doing it for so long. I'm just.
Keith Vance: You're strong. I, um, in college, there's a friend of mine. I went for a year before they kicked me out. There was a friend of mine that I had reconnected with. We were in elementary school together and he was doing bodybuilding and stuff like that. So I just like would go to the gym with him, just like basically lived in the gym that year I was there, not knowing what I was doing. And, uh, you know, um, but then in my thirties is when I really started like start taking my fitness seriously and trying to be strong and do things the right way. So having started later in life at 50 years old, you're talking about how you, how you wore yourself out and you can't do the things you used to do. I'm able to do those things. I'm still getting stronger because I didn't beat myself up. Yeah. I'm not as still not as strong as you. Like I just pulled my PR deadlift for me. It was four 15. So here you are doing four Oh five for reps for 15 at 50 years old. But it was a, it's a PR for me.
Billy Morris: But dude, you're a lot taller than I am too. You're moving that way further than I am.
Keith Vance: Understood. Yeah. And we're, our bodies are built differently. Yeah. Um, but, um, so today you're, you're, you're going to work out what? Three, four days a week. You said today. Yes, sir. And you're going to do some strength stuff. Um, speak to. Um, speak to the growth hormone. You said deadlift and a squat.
Keith Vance: there's and I try to have a wide spectrum in my workout as well so I try to stay out of the red on both sides I stay strong in the yellow or the green. So when I'm focusing on strength, I notice that my endurance comes down. So my strength might be in the green and then my endurance will be in the yellow. So I just try to keep everything, or my cardio, I try to keep everything like there. But recently, pulling some heavy weight on a deadlift or getting on a bar and squatting some heavy weight, there's some real emotional stuff that comes out in me. Either I get real pissed off or I'll get real emotional and break down and cry, but there's something there about having a bunch of weight.
Billy Morris: Dude, it's a primal, primal, primal thing.
Keith Vance: Yes, so speak to that for me.
Billy Morris: Dude, well, let's be honest here, right? You know, everybody wants to think of, you know, if somebody broke into my house, what would I do to protect my family? You know, so for me, it's that thought, right? I've got to stay, you know, I got to still be strong, but for my family, I don't even need it so much for me. I mean, it helps mentally. And we will get into that. But dude, there's just something about picking up something heavy. I mean, the cavemen did it, right? I mean, they had to do something. They moved boulders and stuff to build the houses or logs and stuff. I think there's still that little primal, little instinct in the back of the mind. It just opens up when you do something like that. And that's any heavy weight, any heavy lift. Because, I mean, do you listen to music when you're lifting? I do. What are you listening to?
Keith Vance: I listen to all kinds of stuff. Same here. And sometimes, sometimes I don't listen to anything because I want to chase that weak person in my mind. I don't want him hiding from me. I feel like if I listen to music, he hides in the corner. So I purposely sometimes bring him out. I don't listen to anything. I try to draw him out and just beat him, beat him down. Does that make sense to you?
Billy Morris: No, of course. But that's what I love about your gym, right? Because it's your gym, right? I wear it because, I hate to say it, but I'm in a gym with a bunch of people. So there's always people talking and laughing. Not that I care. I mean, you know, hey, it doesn't bother me. That's why I have the headphones in. But it's funny. Like you said, listening, dude, I can get motivated by like that song, I Can Only Imagine by Mercy Me. Right? That's not a workout song. But there's something about that song that opens up that channel, right? My next song on there might be Metallica. You know, Ride the Lightning or something like that. You know, going into Motley Crue, you know, Kickstart My Heart and then into, believe it or not, you know, going into, you know, Amazing Grace. If I had one song I listened to, Amazing Grace, back to my version, that's my song. But they're just, but what's the thing? I'm connecting with those songs emotionally. Yes. And so, the weights do that too, right? Because not only, for me, I'm listening to it, but then I'm hitting that primal part of me that wants to pick up the heavyweight, that wants to move it. You know, it's motivation.
Keith Vance: There was one time, there was one time I was, I was doing some squats and I'm not a, I'm not a good squatter. I'm getting better. Like my, my PR is 315, which is nothing. It's nothing. But for me, you're tall. But for me, it's, it's, it's good. When, um, there was a time that I was going for some heavy squats and life was like, really just kind of good. It was really just, life was just kind of good. And I had, I had done this weight before and I just kind of got in there. I didn't mean I didn't, I wasn't lazy about it. I did my thing, but mentally I wasn't, there was no adversity mentally. There was nothing that was grabbing onto. It was just me and the weight. There was no mental thing. I picked it up, went down, and I'm not coming back up. Hmm. Um, a few weeks later, same amount of weight, but I'm under, I'm under, I'm under some load. And I'm feeling like emotionally, I'm feeling like if I stop, the ramifications it is to my family, not even about weight, about something else. If I stop, what's that mean for my family? And brother, I got underneath that freaking bar, put tears and just, and dude, it went down and it came up like, it came up quick, the same weight, the same weight. So there's something there about that. When you dig down deep and it's not even about weight, it's about whatever that is inside that makes us men.
Billy Morris: Dude, not only that, it's like, it's that men, that mindset that if I let this bury me, what else is going to bury me? Hmm. And so, you know, and that's why I think people like us that do work out pretty regular, I think mentally we are stronger. You know, I mean, I've gotten to this. So, you know, Again, I listen to some Joe Rogan stuff, and he makes a point that he does things that make him uncomfortable. That's kind of how I've gotten into my workouts. I hate Bolivian squats, but I do them now. I hate single leg squats, but I do them because my balance is so bad. Dude, I'm grabbing like a 30-pound dumbbell when I'm doing them, and I look like a baby deer that was just born. I'm like having to grab stuff to keep from – but it challenges me. That's the stuff I do now to kind of mentally keep myself in my workouts.
Keith Vance: Becoming comfortable with being uncomfortable. I love that space. Yes. I love that space.
Billy Morris: That's why I do cold plunges. I haven't done many this year, but the same thing, dude. I don't want to get in any freaking time I'm out there. I'm like, God, this is going to suck, but I do it. I know you do cold plunges too. Are you still doing them?
Keith Vance: I do. It's funny because to get the benefit from it, the minimum is like nine minutes a week to like 12 minutes a week is the minimum. Yeah. But then when I started doing the strength thing, if you cold plunge like right after, like all that work you did just diminishes it. So the timing to do both. And so what I do is I cold plunge every Sunday. I'll get in for three minutes, get out, get in the sun. You know, it's a little bit of a process, but Sunday I rest. So I do that on Sundays. But I think just for the mental aspect to it, I think I'm going to get back on the cycle where every morning, first thing in the morning, I go out there when it's dark. That's when I would do it is in the morning. When it's dark and cold. You don't have the sun to warm you up. Just two and a half, three minutes. It's just that first thing. Because it's one thing to do it in the afternoon when you're already awake and the sun's out and it still sucks, but it doesn't suck as bad as going out there when it's still dark outside.
Billy Morris: There's one guy I remember watching on Instagram. Dude, he's cracking like ice this thick on his. I'm kidding. And I'm like, oh, my God. Like if I have to bring a pickaxe out to get in, I'm probably just going back inside.
Keith Vance: That's how I feel. Anything else in this wheelhouse of fitness that you want to speak to that you can speak to from a level that I can't with your knowledge?
Billy Morris: No, man. I mean, I think it's pretty basic for most men.
Keith Vance: So then why don't we do it? We've got to move the body. Get some sun. Get sleep. I mean. Get your diet dialed in. Move the body. It's time, right?
Billy Morris: It's time. I mean, it always comes into time. And, you know, when it's – I mean, even though I'm getting – you know, this year so far, I've been able to pretty much get in as much as I want. But, I mean, you know, when the holidays from like October to December is just so tough for me because we have Jenny's birthday, then our anniversary, then Thanksgiving, then we have my birthday, then there's Christmas, and there's Avery's birthday, then there's New Year's. And it's like – so when you're doing all that stuff, man, it's so hard for me to get in. That's when I kind of slack.
Keith Vance: But having said that, I'm going to hold you accountable a little bit. Oh, yeah. You don't have to be so rigid. No. Listen, who says you can't just drop down and do some push-ups and some air squats?
Billy Morris: Did you know how many times I kick myself because I'm the same thing? I'm like, you know, Jenny and I are watching a show. Why can't I – like you said, just drop down and do 50 push-ups real quick. I know.
Keith Vance: It's – When it becomes your lifestyle and who you are, and especially knowing how important it is, like I think leaving some room there that say, well, while the gyms close or this or that and trying to make it too complicated, just go out and find a tree branch to use some pull-ups. Right. Just go for a walk. Yeah. It's so important. It really is. It's so important. Even as for men with all the responsibility and stuff that's on us, if you don't have an hour, just 30 minutes, do something, right? Yeah.
Billy Morris: No, absolutely. There's no excuse.
Keith Vance: Like you said, I got to hold myself accountable for that as well. Tom Vargas, he was on here last week. I don't know if you watched his podcast.
Billy Morris: I started it. Yeah, yeah.
Keith Vance: He's super busy. And he was talking about how he gets up early in the morning to work out. And I thought it was just because he works out in the morning to get his day going. And I was talking about I work out in the afternoon because I let my stress build up. And then I work – I'm an afternoon guy too. He said, Keith, he's like, I don't work out in the morning to get my day going. He's like, I work out in the morning at 3 o'clock in the morning because that's all the time I have for myself. Bro, that was like a kick in my stomach to me because that's discipline. Yes, it is. And there's some people that are living in that world where for Keith to do what you're asking me to do, it's going to take 3 a.m. And those boys are doing that.
Billy Morris: Well, here's the thing. Just like you said, my issue is I'm a night owl. I have been my whole life. And then I worked for years in the ER and did overnights. It's basically because I just graduated. They paid more for overnights. Yeah. So for me, man, that is my biggest issue, man. I've got to get more sleep. I've got to get myself. And actually, Jenny and I have been kind of working on that, trying to do some of the stuff we do later, a little earlier so I can get into bed. But sleeping is an issue for me.
Keith Vance: When Brooke was working the hospital, she took night shifts because it paid more. Mm-hmm. And I remember the whole transition. I hated it. I hated it for that girl. She would be so hungry. I mean, she would be so tired and so hungry. She would sleep with a jar of peanut butter next to her bed and a spoon and just kind of like roll over and take a couple bites. And then especially knowing what I know about how important sleep is, I'm thankful that people do the night thing. But they're literally taking years off their life. People that do that, people that work night shift, you're shortening your lifespan by like six or seven years.
Billy Morris: Insomnia is now a carcinogenic. It's crazy. They've classified it as a carcinogenic now. And so a funny story. When I was working nights, Jenny and I had built our first house after I graduated and started working in the ER. Built our first house in Cape Coral. And I remember she's decorating it. So on my days off, I would try to adjust back into the family schedule. Right. So I would get, you know, I'd try to, I'd come home at like, because it was 6 p.m. to 6 a.m. shift. So I'd come home and really meant you probably weren't getting home until after seven. Because by the time you cleaned up, did your dictation and everything. So I would go to bed at like 7 and try to get up at like 11 or 12. Because then the kids were coming home. And then, and I remember, I still remember this, like I'm sitting there. We were, I was in our, our little den. I'm sitting on the couch. Jenny's on this, on a chair, hanging a curtain. She didn't even turn around to look at me. She just goes, if you don't want to wind up in divorce court, you need to stop working nights. Because I was, I was grumpy because I was always tired. And then when I would try to adjust my schedule to be with the family for the two or three days I had off, I was, I was miserable. And I still remember, I just see in the back of her head and her going, if you don't want to wind up in divorce court, you need to stop working nights.
Keith Vance: Again, that goes back to, I'm thankful that people that do that, because it is a sacrifice. You think about truck drivers, you think about airplane stewardess, like it's not healthy to be on a plane all the time. No, it is not. There's people that do it at a cost to their own health to keep this world moving. And yeah, I'm thankful for, for people that do that. Yeah. It's definitely, it's definitely a sacrifice. Well, you're a business owner. You've been doing it for 12 years. I remember when you got into that business, I was excited for you because the business was a pathway for you to have to get out of what you're doing now with the stresses of life. That, that was the purpose of it. Yep. If I can do this, that's a pathway out of having to do this and getting, getting your life kind of back to normal. Yep. So let's talk about what you do, the challenges and being a business owner. Like, let's just live in that world for a minute. Let's just kind of transition and take it wherever you want.
Billy Morris: Well, I own two locations. I have the Laser Lounge Spa in Cape Coral. And then we have the Aesthetics Lounge and Spa here. We just opened at Babcock Ranch. You know, and the funny thing is, until you've been a business owner, you just don't understand the stresses that business owners go through. And I remember growing up, I always thought anybody that owned a business, oh, they must be wealthy. You know, they must. But my gosh, the headaches, the stuff you have to, you know, you wake up in the morning, your first thought is, okay, what do I got to get done today? You know, you leave in the afternoon, even at night, you're sitting there with your wife talking. But in the back of your mind, thinking, oh, my gosh, I got to worry about this. I got this bill coming up and everything. So it comes with its own set of stressors. Sure. You know, I mean, maybe not as emotionally as stressful as the ER can be, but definitely financial wise and just general everyday stress. I mean, I think it has just as much as the ER.
Keith Vance: I've been a business owner nearly my whole life, so I can speak to a lot of the stuff you're talking about. Now, when you mentioned finances, there's a person who works a job, they get their paycheck every week like clockwork. Oh, yeah. Either they get it put in their hand or it just gets debited into their account. Oh, yeah.
Keith Vance: Different than a business owner that has the ability to see everything as a gift to God, from God, from God. So, for instance, we bid jobs. We don't get every job we bid. The ones I get, I see as gifts from God. Sometimes we do work and people, because they're having their own struggles, take a long time to pay us. No, it's not. My account gets low, and then another God fills that need to another way. So the stresses of being a business owner, yes, it is stressful, but there's also an opportunity there, at least for me as a Christian, to see firsthand God's provision, that he cares, that he meets my needs, that you don't get when it's just like clockwork. Every two weeks a check goes into your account. You follow me? Oh, yeah, absolutely. I've seen that my whole life. There's been times, and this will probably be the first time my guys have heard this from me. Some of my employees watch this. There have been times that my guys are going to finish a job, and I have nowhere for them to go tomorrow. What do I do? I drive to the job site, and I pray, God, you know this need. You've never let me down yet. I know you're not going to let me down again. Just help me to do what I'm supposed to do. God provide. Get a phone call. Hey, Keith, so-and-so gave me your number. These framers are supposed to start framing today, but they showed up, and they're all drunk. I just don't want them on my job. The trusses are here. When can you start? I can roll some guys to you tomorrow.
Billy Morris: I might be able to manage that.
Keith Vance: I can roll some guys to you tomorrow.
Billy Morris: I, it's so funny you say that, because I had this conversation with Jenny the other night, because we opened this new location. Now, as an industry, the aesthetics industry is down probably overall about 40%. That's a big chunk. Yeah, it's significant. 2022 was our best year, and it's gone down significantly since then. And I think that's because, number one, tons of competition. Everybody wants to do this, you know, because it's a cash business, right? So it's like, you know, people, I can't tell you, every time I'm in the ER, I have another PA or nurse practitioner or nurse come up and go, oh, I want to do aesthetics. And you think you do. And it is easy. I mean, it's, you know, my clients are there because they want to be. So, and they're happy to be there. And, but there's so many of them opening. Jenny gets, you know, she's like, oh, here's another one. Here's another one. Well, you know, when I opened this one out here 12 years ago, I was the only one out here. Wow. You know, there's four of them now. Wow. Now there's four of them. So everybody wants to do it. And opening up here in Babcock Ranch, I mean, financially, it's been stressful. And as you were saying the other day, Jenny and I were talking about finances and I'm like, babe, you know, I'm doing everything I can to try to get as many clients in there as we can. But God has never let us down. We always make it. No matter how close, how with the skin of our teeth, we make it. You know, it's not like, you know, you know, I'm rolling in the dough and we're like, woo, you know, but we always make it. And it's been like that even through school. When I was in school and I was working, you know, on the weekends or had a second job just to help. And Jenny nannied kids. That's what she did. Whoops. She would nanny kids and we would make the bills. So we make the bills. And it's funny. Same thing. It's like, you know, you think I mean, would I be happier with more money in my bank account? Sure. But I can't. But I'm blessed. I look at it and I'm like, you know, I have food on the table at night. You know, we have electricity. You know, Jenny and I enjoy each other. Thank God. You know, it's like and my kids, you know, you know, Avery comes home from college and Reith lives locally. We get to see the grandbaby. I mean, you know, other than that, I mean, those are the things that really count.
Keith Vance: For me, I've been doing it so long that I don't want. I see all I see checks for all different amounts. And one check doesn't get me excited over another one. It's just money. Money is a tool. That's the way I see it. It's just money in, money out. Yeah. And I've been doing this for so long. I just see myself as a steward. It's not. Nothing's really mine. I'm just stewarding it. And then God owns everything. I'm just a steward. And then when he lays things on my heart, hey, Keith, I need you to give to this. When you see needs, and I have a wear of needs in people's lives and how God has used me to meet those needs that you can't do it when you're getting a check every two weeks and you're on a little thing. I enjoy that. And then growing something for my children that they can step into. It really is daily a state of dependency being an entrepreneur or a business owner.
Billy Morris: Well, you know, it's funny you say that because, again, it's one of those things that I remember my mom telling me. And even though, you know, we don't tithe regularly to a church, but, you know, we give. And like you, it's like, okay, you know. Yeah. Yeah. I've got a room full right now of baby clothes in our house. Jenny's giving it to kids. He's giving it, you know, because our kids are all getting married and their friends are all getting married and having kids. You know, some of them financially strapped. Jenny's like, hey, come over. I've got tons of baby clothes here. What do you need? You know, I give to panhandlers. You know, I get, you know, crap from it. But you know what? My mom told me something once. She said, you know, God tells us to be generous. I give to panhandlers. The God looks at me and says, hey, you were generous. What they do with it. They're the ones that have to answer to God for that. So it's like if I give this guy, you know, five bucks, he goes and gets a cheeseburger and french fries. He's fed. If he goes and gets a rock of cocaine, you know, he's the one that has to stand before God in front of that. So, again, I do give to panhandlers. I'm probably going to catch some crap about it. But, you know, my mom, I thought that was a good thing that, you know, my mom taught me. And so I try to live that way.
Keith Vance: Two things. One, off the cuff. My wife does, too. She has these little bags that she gives to them on the road. And I always told her, hey, they're just going to buy some white. Why are you doing that? She said, Keith, you can't go wrong being generous. I said, okay. Well, one of those guys that she'd been giving stuff to on the corner, I was getting my hair cut one day. And that guy came walking in the door to get 10 bucks off of one of the barbers. And they gave him 10 bucks. I said, hey, what's that guy's story? Because I see him around. My wife gives him stuff.
Crosstalk: Listen.
Crosstalk: This guy's dad, when this kid was like six or seven years old, thought it would be funny to give his kid some heroin. Oh. That's this kid's story. Yeah.
Keith Vance: So as a man, he's out there, an addict, and he is feeding his habit. But whose fault is that? I told my wife, you give him something every time you see him.
Billy Morris: Yeah, man. You don't know everybody's story. You don't know everybody's story.
Keith Vance: You said that there's a lot of competition in your business. In life, in business, there's competition. Oh, yeah. I mean, that's what makes the world go round, right? Absolutely. So when it comes to competition, you just got to be better than the next guy. So how are you doing that? How are you better than the next guy? You can't be complacent. Listen, it's like it's battle, right? It's battle.
Billy Morris: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it is.
Keith Vance: When you get down to the primal level, it's battle. So how do you do? You can be like, oh, well, there's another one. And you can be complacent about it and say, well, business isn't good because there's too many others. And just kind of like take that approach. Or you can look at yourself and say, okay, here's the service they're doing. Here's the service I'm doing. Yep. How can I get more people in my door? And you got to look at that pretty much constantly because there's always someone hungrier than you. You got to stay the hungriest.
Billy Morris: Well, you know, it's sad because social media plays a big part in this. And I hate social media for the most part. You know, but you do have to be active on social media. But you know where I got. Dude, I tried all the advertising. I paid for flyers. I paid to where, you know, our business name and location would be on the golf cards, the score cards at different golf courses locally. I've done everything. I don't know if any of that works. But you know what works? Freaking Google reviews and word of mouth. Mm hmm. And I had a guy come in, a guy because actually guys, the fastest growing segment in our industry. I had a guy come in, big, huge bodybuilder guy. I mean, you know, it was a monster. And I said, so how'd you hear about us? He was like, Grok. Now I know what Grok is, but I was like, really? I'm like, I've heard Google. I hear word of mouth. Grok, how did that happen? And he's like, I just went in and put in local Botox and fillers, honest, good price. Good boy. And he's like, you popped up. Good. And the honesty part is the part that I will not. I will not compromise on because. Yeah, all it takes is one time to lose somebody's trust. Guess what? Now they're going to tell their friends. And so I pride myself on. I will even talk people out of certain procedures that they want, because it's like, you know, they go on Google, they go on YouTube, whatever, you know, they kind of see these things. And it's like. And I tell people, listen, every modality you see. And I tell people, listen, every modality you see. It has its worth, but only if it's done correctly and only if it's done for the right thing. For example, threads. I make a lot of money on threads, but not everybody is good for threads. And they'll bring in pictures, and they'll be like, oh, I want this. And I'll be like, well, we do basically three threads on each side for a certain amount of money. How many threads do you think this person has? And then we'll pull it up, 12 threads. So now, instead, you're looking at like $5,000. Just save a little extra and get a lower facelift if it bothers you that much, because threads wear off quickly, 16 months at the most. And it's an invasive procedure. It's not fun. But like I said, I make a lot of money on them, but I wind up usually talking people out of threads because they don't need them. And so I have had people flat out tell me, thank you for being so honest. And I joke, but I tell them like, yeah, my bank account does not like me, but I'm going to be honest with you. Because if I do something to a person, and either one, well, let's start here. It's my responsibility to make sure expectations are right. You come in and you have this issue, and that's the other thing. What bothers you? I can pick apart anybody's face, including myself, right? Because that's all I do all day. I look at other people's faces, Botox fillers, different modalities to help with that, right? Facials, peels, you name it. But if I sit here and pick apart your face, sometimes that puts things in people's mind that didn't bother them before. It's great from a business standpoint, because now maybe they want to fix those things. But emotionally and mentally, do I want to do that to somebody? It's like, you tell me what bothers you. Well, these here bother me. Okay, that's a little Botox. We can take care of that. And anything else? Well, do you see anything? And if I see something, I'm like, eh, if you want to do that, I'd probably do a little bit here. But I'm not going to sit there and pick somebody's face apart.
Keith Vance: So a couple things. If you're in the business for the right reasons, which it sounds like you are, you'll survive. You'll stick around. If people get in the business just for the love of money, they'll make those compromises, and that'll come out. It just takes time, right? It just takes time. When we owned Horse and Round Deli, we owned that during the recession. And we tried all the stuff you're talking about, too, to get business going. Word of mouth. And treat people right. Absolutely. We maxed that thing out. You could do no more business than what we did in a recession.
Billy Morris: Yeah. We'd go in there at lunchtime. Our place would be packed.
Keith Vance: So you're on the right path, treating people fairly. And just because you did a good job yesterday doesn't give you the prerogative that you don't have to do good today. Because one bad meal is the one they're going to remember. That's exactly right. You could feed people 10 good meals. They're going to talk about the one bad one. The same thing in your business. Oh, yeah. So every day you show up, you give people the best that you have. You're honest with people. Mm-hmm. And that will come through.
Billy Morris: Well, to be honest with you, I mean, I don't just do it for the client. I do it for myself, man. I don't know that I could live with myself knowing that I was doing things that didn't need to be done.
Keith Vance: Whether God meets your needs or not. And if you feel like you have to compromise your values to get a buck out of someone, God won't bless that. But he will bless someone who's doing, being a wise steward. Yeah. And sometimes it just takes time.
Billy Morris: Dude, I bet you'll agree with me. There are sometimes there are clients you don't want to be your clients. Because I've had them in there and I'm like, you know what? The hassle, the strife that they bring into the office isn't worth having them as a client.
Keith Vance: All right. I can speak this on a couple of friends. My son-in-law, he used to be one of my estimators. Actually, the whole program that I have to estimate, he built the whole thing. Oh, wow. Yeah. You built the whole thing. So there are certain, in the construction industry, there are certain, I have a list. I'll just say I have a list. It says we don't bid these people. It's an automatic no-go. Because you try to make them happy, you can't make them happy. And they take up so much of your freaking time that you could have focused towards someone who's going to be appreciative that you're going to make money. So you try to make someone happy, you can't make happy, and you lose money. So why do that? So just cross them out. So I was going to speak to that on the construction side. On the restaurant side. Yeah. On the restaurant side. We were, it was, you know, it gets slow around 4th of July that time. So we shut, this one particular time, we shut down to give the place a facelift. We painted, we took everything out, we cleaned, we just give it a facelift. There's a bunch of like dining room tables and stuff in the parking lot. Mm-hmm. this lady comes in, walks past all those freaking tables in the parking lot, opens the door. There's, I mean, the places, the ceiling tiles are down. We're working. She comes in. She looks, she's standing behind the cash register, holding the menu. And I'm just like, looking at her. She's like, I want to order this. This is, I said, I said, ma'am, we're closed. Like we're remodeling. You know how far I drove here? Like you should have told somebody this or that. Like, she's like mad at me. I said, ma'am, I don't, I don't know what to tell you, but I'm trying to accommodate her. Yeah. Yeah. And then she says, I will never come back. And I wasn't rude to her. I'm never coming back here again. I said, ma'am, I'm going to take you up on that. But I said, do me one more favor. I said, we do me one favor. I said, we tell all your friends too, because if they're anything like you, I don't want them here either.
Billy Morris: Dude. Well, and here's a story. I had a lady come in. She said her friend down in Mexico, got this certain, we have what's called seal firm. It's microneedling with radio frequency. And she swore that her friend did that and looked like she had a facelift and looked 20 years younger. And I was like, ma'am, I don't think this is. And now she spoke mainly Spanish. Luckily my office manager, she speaks Spanish. So she was kind of translating everything. And I was like, I said, I said, ma'am, I don't, I don't, I don't think this is what you're thinking it is. Oh no. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. I want to do it. I want to do it. Abby, like I said, it's translating and everything. And, and I'm like, I literally try to talk her out of it. She insists she wants to do it. She comes in and she pays $2,500. I'll even tell you, she spent $2,500 on this procedure. We did her neck. We did her lower face, did all kinds of stuff. Now this certain procedure, it takes four to six weeks to get your final results, right? Two weeks later, she's back, says nothing's happened. I tried to explain to her, well, you know, like I said, when we did this, it takes a certain amount of time, blah, blah, blah, blah. Comes back. She is not happy. And finally, I just looked at Abby and I said, just give her her money back. And she's like, well, you should have told me. Well, luckily Abby was like, he did. I translated it. You said you understood. He did warn you that this was, not what you thought it was. And, you know, she's Abby's like, don't give her money back. But I'm like, I don't, I don't need the trouble. I don't need the hassle. Just give her her money back. Cause I hate to say it, but Google reviews go a long way. And all you need is one really bad Google review on there. And I was like, you know what? Just, just give her money back.
Keith Vance: Michael, make sure that we get all his links for his businesses. And we'll, he's probably has a much bigger following than we do, but he's my, I doubt that he's my buddy and I want to promote him the best I can.
Billy Morris: I appreciate it, brother. So, but, um, same thing with like, you know, these people that body dysmorphia is a real thing. We have these people that come in and I've lost clients cause I won't make them look freaky. You know, I tell people all the time, I don't want my name on crazy. And there comes a point where people ask you, Hey, who did that? And they're not asking cause they did a good job. They're asking so they can avoid who did it. So, I mean, so as a business owner, I mean, I'd love to have those people, uh, because, all right, let me rephrase that. I would love to not have the conscience that I do because at that point, when you're looking that bad, your injector is using you as an ATM. They'll do whatever you want. As long as you'll take, as long as you're paying for it. I just refuse to do that.
Keith Vance: The other thing, and I think we hit on this a little bit, but the other thing I learned in business is you don't have to be everything to everybody. Be who you are, be what you do best at, and just stick within your lane. And as you grow, if another lane comes up that you can manage that as well, but trying to be everything to everybody, that's a recipe for disaster.
Billy Morris: Dude, I know my strengths are being a goofball, so I use it.
Keith Vance: Oh, good. Um, all right, well, let's do it. Um, we're going to transition to the final one. Um, before you talk about, um, when you lost your son, I want you to, I want to talk about the birth of each one of your children. Let's talk about that first. Let's talk about that memory. Oh boy. Each one of your, each one of your babies, what you remembered. Yeah. That, that, that feeling that you had. I'm a dad too. Like I'm feeling right now.
Billy Morris: Luckily I don't have to remember as much as you do. Yeah. You know, it's funny. I was kidding. I was telling one of my clients the other day that I was coming in here and I was just giving her a little, it's like, I'm, I told her, I'm like, Oh, you might've seen the stuff of Vance brothers, you know, framing. And I said, it's a great guy. I said, you know, though, I said that dude, it's got seven kids. I don't know what took him so long to figure that out. Right. And then she goes, well, I have six of my own. And I'm like, Oh, so you're one of those. You're one of those. Yeah. But, um, of course, like I was saying earlier, you know, Jenny and I decided to have kids early because we wanted them around for my, um, in-laws because they were just a little bit older. Um, Jenny's mom was 43 when she had Jenny. So again, you know, for that, um, so, um, when we decided to have kids, I mean, we were lucky. I mean, we decided to have them, we had them. I mean, we didn't, you know, there was nothing like, you know, oh gosh, we're having a hard time getting pregnant or anything. I mean, it was good. Um, you know, it's so funny. Uh, the difference even in the pregnancies is really wild, you know, because with, um, Ryder, Jenny was such a good eater. I mean, and she had this love of celery. I freaking hate celery. And she would make me a salad when I'd go to work. It would be freaking 90% celery, you know? So she ate wonderful. The birth went six hours. Ryder came out perfect. Um, and you know, I mean, there is something, again, cause we just don't understand it. Right. It's like, you know, nothing grows in my body like that. So it's amazing. It really is. And I was one of those dads that I wanted to cut the, you know, cut the cord. I was there, you know, luckily I'm not squeamish. You know, some people are, I mean, the only thing that I can describe almost to that level was becoming a grandparent, you know, kind of the same thing, same emotions, but man, it's like, wow, you know, now guess what? And I told this to Wreath and I told him, you know, when we lost Ryder, because Wreath and Ryder were very, very close. I mean, people, there were people, and we'll discuss this later, but I remember a cop at our door three in the morning saying, don't you have twin boys? I mean, that's how close they were. I know. And, um, so it was just, you know, one of those things that when it, when it happens, you know, Jenny and I had to fall in love. You and Karen had to fall in love. You're in love. The moment you see that child, you know, you will throw down at the gates of hell if need be for that child. And it's instant. It's instant, man. And, and Wreath gets upset because not only to lose a brother, he lost a best friend. And there were times when, you know, he'd be short with us when we would discuss things. You don't know how it feels to lose a best friend and a brother. Yeah, but you don't know what it's like to lose a child. And now that he's a dad, he's like, I get it. I see it. But, but that emotion is so strong immediately. I mean, you know, the kid's growing, right? I mean, you see in your wife and you're like, Oh, I can't wait for the baby. We're just so happy. But the instant, there's nothing like it. Nothing.
Keith Vance: You, uh, I fist bumped you because to be a dad, brother, like what you're describing. I know Michael, you feel it. Yeah. And that's the exact emotion. I feel like my wife, um, my love for her is still growing. Yeah. My love for her is still growing. I love her more now than I did when I met her. That that's a different type of love. But when I saw each one of those babies, like my, my love for them was to the max. It can't get any better. It hasn't got down. It's just, it was automatically maxed out and to, it's a part of you. It just becomes a part of you. And then like when that emotion hit me the first time, like, like whatever this thing, whatever this baby needs, I got it. Yeah. Yeah. And then it happened to me six more times. And so I know what the emotion feels like. So I'm kind of like preparing myself, but it's still, it just, it's just, it's just there.
Billy Morris: I don't think it matters how many kids you have. I don't. I mean, I know back in the, you know, back in the old days, they had more kids to help out around the house, but now we have kids because we can. Yeah. And, you know, and with wreath, it was the same thing. It was the same thing. Now it was funny going back to the pregnancy thing. Jenny was, had a sweet tooth with wreath, you know, so she gained a little more weight than she should have. And, and his birth was, thank God, just as easy and everything. And, and, and you raise them the same. They sure they're so different. Yeah. So different. Again, another amazing thing that God does, you know, it's one of those things where it's like, you know, Ryder was the, you know, was the nice one. And not that wreath is a nice, but wreath was the, we used to call him the Hornet because he was the smallest of all the kid group when they were kids. And he would just get to look on his face and he was ready to throw down at the drop of a hat. You know, Ryder was always the hugger, you know, wanted to be nice. And so they balanced each other really well. And then there was Avery. Now Avery of course came along, you know, five years after wreath.
Keith Vance: So, hold on a minute. You got Ryder. What's the gap between?
Billy Morris: Ryder and Wreath were exactly 16 months apart. Wow. And then five years later, it's Avery. Yeah. And I told Jenny, I'm like, we'll keep going until we have a little girl, because that was her dream as a little girl, was to have a little girl. And actually, Ryder is named after her father, because her maiden name is Ryder. So, that's how we picked that. And Wreath, R-E-I-T-H, we picked that name, because it was the only R name that we both kind of liked. Got it. And so, that's how he happened. Now, Avery, I had no say-so in it. Jenny had that name picked out since she was 12. There you go. But I loved it anyway, so it wound up working out great. But I remember being at the ultrasound for Avery, and they were like, oh, you've got a little girl. I hit my knees, and I was like, oh, thank you, God. But Jenny was like, what? What? What? What'd you say? She was like, you know, so, you know, that she just didn't even comprehend it. And even during the delivery, once they delivered Avery, she was like, let me see. Let me see. She didn't believe it. She thought she was going to wind up having a little boy pop out, right? So, and I will say, we kid around, but Avery was the chosen one. You know, that's what her friends call her.
Keith Vance: Do you remember the emotion as a dad between seeing the little girl for the first time? Yes.
Billy Morris: Again, it's hard to explain. And I've had this conversation with Wreath a little bit, because, you know, now that he's a girl dad, he gets it. But I used to tell him all the time, I'm like, son, when you were a kid, I said, you know, when you fell off your bike, right? Get up. Get back on the bike. Brush off your knees. You're good. Let's go. But when your sister fell off a bike, oh, baby, come here. Let me see. Oh, let daddy. You want me to kiss your boo-boo? And I said, the reason is I have to teach you how to be a man. I have to teach her what to expect in a man.
Keith Vance: That's good. That's a good. Hey, make sure when you clip that one, you clip that one. That's a good one. Listen, that's powerful.
Billy Morris: It's the truth, because she is going to accept what the role model you give her. That's good. If I lay around in pajamas all day and smoke weed and drink and, you know, and I don't, she's going to think that's acceptable in a man. That's good. And so I literally, and Wreath, when I said that, he's like, oh, my gosh. He's like, I totally get it now. And I'm like, I didn't get it, but I kind of like right now, Avery's dating this guy. She's been dating for a year and a half. She's in grad school at USF, and she has broken up with people that don't open doors for her, don't walk on the roadside when they're walking. And as a matter of fact, it was funny. She did a little Snapchat, Instagram thing, whatever. And she put on there, Jenny hasn't touched a doorknob in 30 years because I still open the door for my wife.
Keith Vance: A dad wants to hand his daughter off to a man that's going to take care of her better than him. Yeah. That's all I want. Of course. That's all I want. Yeah. Like, ask him if somebody's going to protect her, provide, have that same, that same emotion that you felt when you saw her for the first time. Oh, yeah. Someone's going to carry that.
Billy Morris: Mm-hmm. And she's told me, she's literally says, if a guy doesn't open the doors for me, I don't date him. Mm-hmm. And I, you know what, I've called kids out. Like, I remember one time two boys came over.
Keith Vance: And it's not because she's entitled. No, no. It's because what, exactly. Because of what, she sees something new, how you treat your wife, and she wants that. Yeah. She wants to find that person.
Billy Morris: Dude, like I said, I want them to find their Jenny. Yeah. You want them to find their Karen. Yeah. Absolutely. And I, you know, it's funny, we had two boys come over and they weren't even dating. Weren't even dating. Picked up Avery and a friend. I'm out in the yard doing something. I forget what I was doing. But I'm watching them. And they, they walk up and they just get in the truck. Girls get in the back. I dropped what I was doing. I went, uh, uh, uh. Avery knew what was coming. It used to embarrass her. But at this point, she'd gotten used to it. So I go, uh-uh, guys. So they stop. They're backing out of the driveway. They stop. I walk up to the door. I'm like, um, can you roll down the window? They roll down the window. I'm like, um, did I just see you guys walk out of my house and just jump in the car? Did you even open the door for the girls? I go, I know you're not dating or anything, but you know, that's just polite. I said, and you know, kids will cuss in front of me. I'm like, do you kiss your mother with that mouth? I mean, don't get me wrong. I'm not. But it's like, dude, I'm 55 years old. I do not cuss around my mother. So, you know, it's just little things like that. But again, I'm setting expectations for her, right? And I got to show him how to be. So that's the difference between a daughter and a son. So you've got to be tougher with the boys, I think, just because they need to learn to be a man. But man, you got to be. To with a girl. And you know what? To be honest with you, she had me wrapped around her finger the moment she came out. So it's not that hard. At least to me, it wasn't that hard.
Crosstalk: Yeah, I remember.
Crosstalk: Yeah. Kids are gifts, man.
Keith Vance: Kids are gifts. You know, I remember when my son, Terry, my first child was born and just feeling that weight of responsibility. But it was a responsibility that I wanted. Like I wanted it. Like whatever it was I was feeling, I was feeling like, ooh, my life has a whole other level of purpose now. Like it just felt like right. And then when my daughter Brooke came on the scene and like a whole different emotion, like, you know, like I'm responsible for this little life, but in a different way. And you just described it perfectly.
Billy Morris: And not only that, dude, that connects back to what we talked about. You under 315. Dude, it's that, okay, this is a weight. This is a burden, but I love it.
Keith Vance: Yeah.
Keith Vance: Yeah. In the Americans. In our culture, the dad walks the bride down. Mm-hmm. I went to a Spanish wedding. The mom does it? The mom walks the daughter down.
Billy Morris: Dude, that makes total sense to me.
Keith Vance: And that makes closer sense because there's a connection that those two have that we don't have. Yeah. The dad sat in the front and mama walked down and mama's having all the emotion and she's giving her baby away.
Billy Morris: Dude, I did not know that, but that makes, it does, it makes more sense to me.
Keith Vance: It speaks to what you're talking about, that emotion that a mom has with her children. Well, you know, I go back as you're talking about that.
Billy Morris: What an amazing God we serve. Dude, Eve bit the apple first. But yet they were blessed to have children. It just hit me. Okay, Eve bit the apple first. And because of that, we're thrown out of the Garden of Eden. That's how sin entered the world, right? But they have kids. Dude, we will never know what that feels like. And that is, I think that is a miraculous thing. And it's funny. I've gotten to be more conservative. I hate to say this in this way, but I'll explain it. On abortion. When I was younger, I was like, oh, okay, you know, I bought into the whole, you know, your body, your choice thing. And to this day, I will say that I still, it's one of those things that, you know, I guess I'll just never understand. And thank God I've not had to, you know what I'm saying? And that I don't have to, you know, worry about, you know, making those decisions these days. Thank God. But to me, it just, what a blessing that is to have a child, to grow a life inside of you. I just never thought of it that way until just now kind of talking about that.
Keith Vance: Man. It's amazing. All right, brother, let's do it. All right. Where do you want to start? Well, we talked about the birth of your kids.
Keith Vance: How old was Ryder when we lost him? 21. He was 21. Yep. Mm-hmm. We already have an idea of what the kind of kid he was. You said he loved to fish. Everybody loved him. Outdoorsman. Yep. Loved to be outside. He worked for us at the restaurant for a while. Everybody loved him. I loved him. He just had that personality that, like, he didn't know a stranger.
Crosstalk: No.
Crosstalk: But there was a trajectory that he was on.
Keith Vance: Mm-hmm. And ultimately, he lost his life. So let's just, I'll let you take the lead on this. I want you to navigate this. And I'm not even going to try to direct it because I don't even know how to. Yeah.
Billy Morris: No, that's fine. So in high schools, when we, you know, first, and you know, here's the funny thing. I work in the ER, right? But I'm so close to it that I didn't even see it. Jenny's the one that picked it up. Again, that mother, she could even, the sound of his voice over the phone, there were times she knew. And again, I think, again, that goes back to a mother's love, like carrying it, you know, being part of, you know. What do you mean she knew? She was like, he's, oh, he's on something. I can tell by his voice. Really? Or, like, she picks up little things like, you know, he avoids us when he's on something. He doesn't, you know, he makes sure he's gone all the time. Or his eye twitches. There's some little thing. Or he... Does a move? I mean, that's how I mean, that's how minute those things could be. And she would pick up on them. Yes. So it started out with weed. And again, this is why, you know, I used to tell the kids, listen, they call weed the gateway drug for a reason. Not because you smoke weed three weeks later, you're going to be shooting IV heroin, but because you're altered a little bit. And maybe the next time you go to a party, somebody goes, hey, man, you want a little Xanax? Now you're a little altered from the weed. But what's a little Xanax going to hurt? You know, and so I told him, I said, that's why it's called the gateway drug. And you're not old enough or mature enough to be able to say, you know, I'm only going to smoke at night if I need to go to sleep or man, really bad day. And like with the medicinal marijuana and stuff. I don't mind that, because if you're an adult and you can handle it by all means. I mean, I know people that use it to go to sleep. They get up, they work full day. Fine. No problems with it.
Keith Vance: So you're having conversations with your children. Yeah, you're mentoring them. You're having.
Billy Morris: I used to watch. Did you ever see that show? I think it was on A&E a long time ago. Intervention. Yes. I made them watch that because I wanted them to see what it would do to their lives. OK. And. The thing is, is it's so insidious. And. Peer pressure. I hate to say it, but, you know, Wreath started playing basketball and Ryder would have to hang out and wait for Wreath in high school because Ryder drove and Wreath didn't. And they just started hanging out with kids that were, you know, doing that. And the thing I think that most people do not realize is how prevalent it is in our high schools. I remember hearing. I'll give you an example. I remember one time I was talking to Ryder. I'm like, why do you do this? You know, why can't you be like so and so that does this, this and this? He pulled out his phone and showed me a video of the girl that I was talking about with a bunch of guys putting cocaine on her butt and sniffing it off her butt. So this kid that I thought was really good was letting people do this to her at a party. And I'm assuming, you know what that means, but I'm assuming she was probably doing something, too. We had another family that we did stuff with and their son was in the IB program. And they talked about pill parties where all the IB kids would go over and put a bunch of pills, bring them from home, put a bunch of pills in a bowl. And you didn't know what you're getting. You just picked a pill and took it. But so. And again, I know a surgeon son was found overdosed. Microphone in front of you. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I get a little animated here.
Keith Vance: No, it's good. Just turn a little bit. When you turn like this. There you go. There you go. I don't want to lose. I don't want to miss any of this. There we go. Sorry. Go ahead.
Billy Morris: No, no. But again, you know, silver spoon in his mouth. Right. Dad has money. Well off. Well to do. Found him overdosed. You know. So what I'm trying to say is that. You just never know. We and even me before this happened, just assume that probably family life's not very good. Parents probably aren't the greatest parents. But how far from the truth is that? I mean, you don't know.
Keith Vance: Right. So nobody's sanitized from this. No. Nobody's sanitized from this. And you haven't made this point yet. I'm going to make it for you. You guys moved out to Alva on some property. To get away from it. For the purpose to put your children in a, like protect them. Yes. So you are an active, you are active parents. Your wife has an intuition for her children. It's not just everybody doing their own thing. Yeah, of course. You are being parents. Yes. You're busy working, but you're being parents. Mm-hmm. So go ahead.
Billy Morris: Now, we did have some other things. And like we discussed it earlier off, you know, but my, you know, my mother-in-law was living with us. She had Alzheimer's. So my wife was taking care of her. You know, we had Avery who was younger, you know, so we had other things where, so the kids were involved with sports. They had, you know, so again, there are other things going on in your life, right? So it's not like you're just sitting there watching your children. I mean, at that time, it wasn't even a such thing as a helicopter parent, right? But you're doing your best and I'm working. But like I said, and I'll give you an example. There was one night when Ryder, his friends dropped him off at the ER because they didn't think he was breathing. At my ER, Cape Coral, where I've worked for 20 plus years. One of the PAs there, great PA, Ray Mitchell's his name. Um, and he was like, Bill, he called me. I got the phone call two, three in the morning and he's like, your son's here. You know, I've got him in here. You know, it appeared like he may have had an overdose. His friends brought him in. So of course, you know, we get Jenny and I get up and head in. Well, the next time I worked with Ray, Ray was like, um, oh, I asked him, I said, who brought him in? Can you describe him to me? And I showed him and he's like, yeah, I said, all these kids do drugs. And he's like, what? He's like, Bill. they, they do drugs. I'm like, yeah. I'm like, just cause they're wearing polo shirts and, and, you know, uh, Calvin Klein jeans and Nikes, they're, they're drug, they're doing drugs together. He's like, I would have never thought that. And I'm like, I know because what we see on the TV, right? What we see on the movies, you know, it's some addict on the corner and it doesn't say they don't have those, but everyday people that you walk past and think, oh man, I like that guy's shirt or, oh, you know, they drive a nice car. You know, you just don't know. He was so shocked that those other kids were doing drugs. He just couldn't believe it. And so I want to pull back the curtain on that because, you know, and I told you this jelly roll had a statement that I heard the other day. It's like, I used to believe that there, this was a victim of your drugs were dealing drugs was a victim of crime. I now know that's not the case. And he said, but the real victim isn't the addict, it's the family. And that is so true because Jenny and I would, there would be days, weeks where all we could muster up emotionally and mentally was to sit and stare at the walls because you're so emotionally and mentally drained. It affects you physically. Um, we lost friends. I mean, friends would ask us to do things. We just didn't have the energy to go out and do anything. I didn't so much care about what other people thought, but it weighed on Jenny, you know, because, you know, guys, again, our circle's small, right? You know, we kind of, you know, I told you the honey badger, we just, you know, don't give a crap, you know, we just keep going. But again, that whole mother thing, right? That intimacy, that connection that they have with their children and she would worry about what other people thought. And I get it because I worked with a guy who's before all this happened with me, his son got involved. And I remember one time telling him, um, I told him, I said, Jonathan, you should just kick that kid out. His son. Yeah. I said, you just get rid of him, kick him, kick him out, kick him to the curb. Now he wound up going to jail. The son did. But I remember when I, the, my kids started going through that. I apologized. I'm like, Jonathan, I'm so sorry. I said that to you. I should have never said that. I said, you know, nobody understands you're fighting for your kid's life. You know, it's not just about drugs. It's not just about getting high and having fun. When it becomes, when it gets to that point, you're hoping they live. And unfortunately, pain pills came into play. So we got into opiates and, and, and, and other stuff. Do you know your good dad, Jenny's perfect mother?
Keith Vance: Um, Tom Varkas was on last week. He found weed and alcohol because he was escaping abuse in the home. It was an escape mechanism in regard to Ryder. I mean, he's what you just described and his dads, you guys are set. Where did that come from? Is it just, I think you said peer pressure.
Billy Morris: Yeah. Um, without mentioning names, there was a family, um, that we were helping out. One of the family members had access to, uh, pain pills. Okay. And the older brother was doing them on occasion and, you know, kids, they'd skip school. And because it was right across the street from the school, they would go over. And so just out of fun, they tried it. Got it. Start out, start out just being like curious or just something. Okay. Got it. Yeah. But before long, of course, you know, they become addictive, obviously, you know, there are people out there that can do it and they don't become addictive, but if you have an addictive, and addiction does, you know, kind of run in both of our families. My dad, uh, was an alcoholic, um, had a cocaine problem here and there. Um, Jenny's, um, dad used alcohol a little bit, but he kind of got past that, you know, type thing. So, uh, sadly there was, you know, uh, uh, genetic and, and I will say this while I'm thinking about it. I truly believe addiction is a disease. It's also mental. And I think it's part demon possession because Ryder would lay there and he would cry to Jenny and say, I wake up and I don't want to do this.
Crosstalk: I fight it as hard as I can, but then something takes control of me and I can't stop thinking about it and I can't stop it until I do something.
Billy Morris: And I think we are foolish today as Christians. to think that there's no such thing. I mean, I used to, you know, I'd watch Benny Hinn, right? You know, he'd be like smacking people on the head and they're healed. And so I had that thought of, well, no, I don't think that's it. But, you know, the Bible tells us just in the days of Noah, right? You know, it'll be that way at the end. And I do. I mean, yes, there are addicts that do it and they just love the way it feels and whatever. But I think it gets to a point where, again, there's that piece of them that they can't control. And I don't know anything else to chalk it up to because you knew Ryder, you knew how sweet he was. I mean, one of the kids at his funeral talked about how he'd give these long, awkward hugs because he just thought it was funny. And we just love to hug his friends. You know, we had that one kid that talked and told the story about how Ryder nicknamed him Panda. And I'm like, of course, leave it to my son to give the chubby Chinese guy the nickname Panda. Right. You know, it's like, but because he was such a loving kid, nobody, nobody, they, he totally loved the nickname, you know? And sadly, um, he overdosed right in front of Jenny and I one day I had to do CPR on him until EMS got there. He went in the bathroom. We were literally going to go to the mall to buy some clothes because I told him he needed to get a job and we were going to go put applications in and stuff. And he said, okay, let me go use the bathroom. See, that's how easy it was. That's how, I don't know where it was. I don't know how he hit it. I don't know. I don't even remember him going into his room before he went into the bathroom. I just remember him coming out. And then Jenny was look again, Jenny noticed it before me. And she was like, does he look, is there something off? And I looked out cause he walked outside to hit golf balls. And I look outside and he's holding the club in his hand like this. He goes down. I catch him. I pull him inside. He's not breathing. Put him on the floor. I start CPR on him. Jenny calls 911. Of course, Jenny hits her knees, starts praying, calls people, starts having them pray. Now Wreath is freaking out, you know, because I'm doing CPR and his brother's brother's dying right in front of him, right in front of me. Luckily I do what I do. And I remember I had to, you know, I had to shut the emotions off. Wow. You know, you know, Jenny's running around screaming and praying and I'm telling her she needs to be quiet. So I concentrate.
Crosstalk: I just had a thought. Mm hmm.
Crosstalk: You said, I'm just doing what I know I'm supposed to do. Mm hmm. And you're reviving your son. Mm hmm.
Crosstalk: I don't know anything about the medical, but I have children. And that just hit me in a way. I hadn't considered before. Yeah. As a father. Sorry.
Crosstalk: As a father. What does that mean to be a dad?
Keith Vance: And then to do the things that we're supposed to do. And I'm constantly asking myself, am I doing what I'm supposed to be doing? Because I have some stories. They're not as traumatic as yours, but they, I haven't had a chance to talk. I haven't been felt like I've been able to talk about them yet because they're, they're deep.
Crosstalk: Mm hmm.
Crosstalk: What am I doing? What am I doing? What I'm supposed to be doing?
Keith Vance: When it feels like family life is falling apart. and then you put that on yourself, you blame yourself or you're feeling like that. Like, where did I go wrong? What did I do wrong?
Billy Morris: And that's what you do. I mean, that's that whole mental and emotional. What did we do? What did we do wrong? Did I spank him one time and I shouldn't have? You know, and again, it's that the moment they're born, knowing you're going to go to the gates of hell. I was at the gates of hell. But I knew I had to be because he wasn't going to live otherwise. So, yes, I had to kind of shut that emotion off. I had to. Because I'm doing chest compressions, you know, and actually in between, I'm smacking the crap out of him because it would wake him up for a minute, you know, so he would take a few breaths on his own because I had to work him for about 30 minutes before he got there. Wow. Wow. And so, you know, they came in and, you know, and after this, they gave him Narcan. I saw him on the internet and I saw him on the internet and I saw him on the internet and I saw him on the internet and I saw him on the internet and I saw him on the internet and I saw him on the internet and I saw him on the internet and I saw him on the internet and I saw him on the internet and I saw him on the internet and I saw him on the internet and I saw him on the internet and I saw him on the internet and I saw him on the internet and I saw him on the internet and I saw him on the internet and I saw him on the internet and I saw him on the internet and I saw him on the internet and I saw him on the internet and I saw him on the internet and I saw him on the internet and I saw him on the internet and I saw him on the internet and I saw him on the internet and I saw him on the internet and I saw him on the internet and I saw him on the internet and I saw him on the internet and I saw him on the internet and I saw him on He woke up, but I remember driving behind that ambulance, Jenny thought he was dead because the lights and sirens were off. She thought she was, and I had to say, baby, if they were still working him, lights and sirens would be on. He's awake. They only turn them off if they've revived the patient. And, you know, we got there, and of course he was alert because they hit him with the Narcan, and to this day, Jenny carries Narcan everywhere she goes. There's Narcan in everybody's car. Avery carries Narcan.
Keith Vance: What freaking kind of world we live in that a woman has to walk her all that in her purse. What in the world, man? Like, what is going on?
Billy Morris: Dude, we live in a world where everything that we tell them and teach them, the world tells them opposite. Be faithful. Don't do drugs. Be kind. Don't take advantage of people. But the moment they walk out that door, drugs are fun. Screw anybody you want. It makes you feel good. It doesn't matter who you screw over as long as you make money and you make it to the top. That's why we're not of this world.
Billy Morris: And that's why, you know, and I think I told you, Jenny and I isolating ourselves was part of the master plan. Satan loves it when you're isolated. Right. And that's why I chose to do this with you. As a matter of fact, as soon as you asked me, I knew I was going to do it because that isolation almost destroyed the family. Because you're so isolated and thinking that everybody thinks bad of you. That you don't want to do anything. You don't want to go outside. You don't want to do anything. And then having to see your son that way. And the day that he passed away, Jenny was the one doing CPR on him. Oh, my gosh. Avery was on 911. 911. I was in the ER.
Billy Morris: And it was three days before Irma. Wow. I knew we had to get ready. You know, and I didn't even go into like, you know, again, the phone call, the cops showing up at the house. You know, the phone calls we would get, you know, from friends that were concerned or had heard this or heard that. And there's different stages. I'm sorry, man. I'm all over the place, but it makes sense. Listen, listen.
Keith Vance: You're doing great. You're doing good.
Billy Morris: You go from defending your child. Right. Like, no, that would never happen. No, not my kid. Not my kid.
Billy Morris: And there was one time I was in the ER. Jenny called me. Ryder had taken, and again, I'm telling this story so you see what kind of person, how kind and gentle he was.
Crosstalk: But it still got him. Yeah.
Crosstalk: He snuck out his BB gun.
Billy Morris: And him and another kid were shooting.
Billy Morris: And he shot this girl in the back. And his story to me was, I was shooting at the stop sign and I missed and I hit this girl in the back. I got home that next morning and I lit him up because he knew he wasn't supposed to take out the bug, the gun, BB gun, much less shoot it in the neighborhood. This is when we were still in the Cape. I'm sorry. Still in the Cape. And I spanked his butt. I cried when I walked out of the room, but I knew he needed a lesson.
Crosstalk: Six months later, he tells me, Dad, I didn't shoot that girl.
Billy Morris: I'm like, what? And he's like, so-and-so who was with me did. And I was like, okay. And I said, well, why?
Crosstalk: Why? Why did you tell me that?
Crosstalk: The kid's dad had dropped over dead in a McDonald's like three months earlier. Oh.
Billy Morris: And he took the blame because he didn't want that kid's mom to cry anymore. So I was like, okay. So I remember like four or five days later, the kid was over there all playing football in the front yard. And I called him in and I said, hey, I said, let me ask you a question. I said, you can tell me the truth. It's over. I'm not going to say anything. But Ryder said this happened and that you actually shot the kid. But he said he took the blame because he didn't want you to get in trouble and didn't want your mother to be upset. And he looked at me, he goes, yes, sir. That is what happened. So I tore him up. Yeah. And he took the blame for that just to save that kid's mom from crying.
Billy Morris: So to sit there and know that this kid who is so loving and so kind can succumb to this. And sadly, to be honest with you, he was actually doing better. He actually reached out to one of the rehabs he had been into, told him he was struggling a little bit. And sadly, they just kind of told him, well, there wasn't a whole lot they could do. I wish they'd have said, yeah, come over right now. We would have figured out how to make it work, you know.
Keith Vance: That's what he called the rehab place. Yeah.
Billy Morris: He was like, his biggest issue was insomnia, you know. And he got his Xanax that was laced with fentanyl.
Billy Morris: And I left that morning. He had me blocked in. So I went into his room and him and his girlfriend were, you know, up just watching his show, you know. And I told him, I said, son, you got me blocked in. You need to get this, get your car. And when he came out, because I didn't want to say anything from his girlfriend, I was mad because the hurricane was coming. I needed him. I told him, I said, I need your help this afternoon. This hurricane's on the way. I need you to help me around this house. I was not happy. I lit into him.
Crosstalk: And the last words I said to him were not kind.
Crosstalk: And I told him, I said, I just can't believe you. And I drove off. And those are the last words I got to say to my son. Hit the pause button.
Crosstalk: And then, words from a father to a son carry more weight than anyone else in the room. Mm-hmm.
Crosstalk: And I learned that lesson with, with, with my boys.
Keith Vance: Well, when they were younger, we talked earlier about the pressures of being a business owner. One of those pressures was, I was still a kid myself and managing a bunch of people. And didn't realize I wasn't shutting it off. And I came home and I treated my boys like my employees I've been working with all day. Mm-hmm. I was saying things to them like they're my workers. And they're not my workers.
Crosstalk: Mm-mm. Yeah.
Keith Vance: They're my boys. Mm-mm. Mm-mm. And when someone else could speak to them that way, it'd be okay. Because they're not dad. They're just so-and-so. But a word, but a dad's words carry more weight than anybody else in the room. Mm-hmm. That was a hard lesson to learn. And that's why I hit the pause button. Not because I'm, I'm, I'm feeling what you just, I'm feeling what you just said. Like, someone else could have said that to them. Yeah. And maybe it would have affected them a little bit. Maybe it wouldn't. But not as much as yours because they play that over and over again in their head. Mm-mm-mm. Like, is that what dad thinks? Even, even my relationship with my dad, I'm 50 years old, but my dad can say something to me that'll cut me so deep or it'll either make me so proud or it'll do something inside me. Yeah. That no one else in this world can affect me. Absolutely. My dad thinks I can do it. Mm-hmm. My dad doesn't think I can do it. Yeah. My dad thinks that about me. Mm-hmm. Well, my dad thinks, my dad thinks that about me.
Billy Morris: Yeah. And like I said, he was getting better. Yeah. I mean, he just had that one issue. And actually, we know the person that mixed that, know who it was.
Billy Morris: And unless they had, you know, because of course we cooperated with the police. And I'm going to really go raw on everything just so people can kind of get a really. Um, so two hours later, I'm in the ER. I get a call. Jenny's like, oh my God, he's not breathing. He's not breathing. And I'm like, call 911. And I just slammed the phone out. And I have patients. I'm working with Dr. Bob Esposito. And if he sees us, thank you, Bob. I just ran out of there. I didn't grab anything other than my keys. I ran red lights. I was blowing my horn through everything. I got to 31 at the Civic Center and there was a sheriff, two cars in front of me. I got out at the red light and ran up to him and knocked on his door and said, my son's overdosed. The paramedics and everybody's there. And he just said, get behind me. He turned on his lights and sirens and he escorted me all the way in.
Crosstalk: I walked in the room though. I knew he was dead and I knew he was not coming back.
Crosstalk: They were still working him.
Billy Morris: Cause you do with kids, you work on me. You want, you don't want to leave any doubt that you didn't do everything within your power to help save that child.
Crosstalk: But so many years of working in the ER, I knew as soon as I saw him, he wasn't coming back. And to see my wife over crying and just so panicky. And my daughter, Reith wasn't there yet. They called him and he was on his way.
Billy Morris: That's kind of a horrible thing to know.
Keith Vance: You know, just to walk in and see it and just know you walk in, you see it, you know, but you're letting the scenario play out because you don't want your wife to know yet.
Billy Morris: Not only that, I'm hopeful. I'm praying, God, please, please do something here.
Crosstalk: And I told you, I used to walk out into my driveway every night and look up at the stars and pray that God would watch over my kids and keep my kids and my family safe. Yeah.
Billy Morris: What I do is a blessing and a curse. And that, you know, sometimes it's just things you just don't want to know. And that was one of them. I just knew. And, you know, from that very moment, your life changes. There, nothing is going to be the same ever. And just so you know, your listeners and everybody understand that then becomes a crime scene. They kick you out.
Crosstalk: My wife just wanted to lay there and hold his hand and cry. And I did. I got to the point where I looked at the sheriff and I said, well, if you're going to arrest us and you go ahead and arrest us, because I'm not leaving. All she wants to do is sit here and hold her son's hand.
Crosstalk: And then they come in.
Crosstalk: And they throw them in a plastic bag. And you can't touch them. You're not supposed to see them. Because they treat it as a crime scene. And so. Jenny didn't want to have a viewing, but I had to have one because. Because I was. Not nice. The last time I saw him and because I didn't want the last thing I saw was him in that fucking back. Excuse my language. Sorry.
Crosstalk: And we had a very small viewing. We only allowed his best friends and family to show up.
Crosstalk: You know, you have to go shopping for clothes.
Billy Morris: You have to go shopping for clothes to bury them in. Even cremated, which we had writer cremated. We had to. So you. You go shopping knowing. And I didn't care. I was like, I don't care. He loved polo. He loves polo sweaters. I don't care. Spend a hundred dollars on a polo sweater. Get his favorite shoes. I don't care. Spend a hundred and fifty dollars on those damn Nikes.
Crosstalk: I don't care. And I know they're going to be burnt up.
Crosstalk: And then you have to make arrangements. You have to.
Billy Morris: You don't want to do anything but cry. And because of Irma, his funeral and everything was delayed. Oh, wow. Because like I said, three days later. Yeah. We got hit by the storm. Yeah. Well, thank God my little brother and my mom flew in last night. They were the last plane in here. I would let the house blow away. My brother was like, Bill, we had good friends, Jim and Janie. Jim came out. And, you know, he already had his house proofed. And so he came out and I would let the house blow away. If my brother hadn't come, I would have been like, I don't care. Yeah. And you have to go through pictures and you have to pick out music and you have to, who do you invite? And, you know, you know, you don't want to do those things. You just want to scream. You want to yell. You want to cry. You want to be in a, you know, some dark place closed off.
Billy Morris: But you have to smile and you have to greet people and you have to, you know, it is nice to have the people talk about your son and everything. And it's nice to see those pictures, but you're dying. You're dead inside. Part of your future dies with your child.
Crosstalk: No grandkids coming from Ryder would have been such a good dad. Yeah. I mean, I don't get to see him walk down the aisle. I don't get to, you know, go fishing with him anymore.
Crosstalk: So part of your future dies.
Billy Morris: And I'm going to tell this for your listeners. As someone that loses somebody, you don't want to hear God had a plan. You don't want to hear he's in a better place. You don't want to hear those things. I mean, they're platitudes. And I know that they're saying it to try to show their remorse or that they, you know, they're able to feel sorry for you. I just want to punch you in the throat. You come up to me and tell me God had a plan. I don't give a crap about God's plan at that moment. That's my son. That's my child.
Crosstalk: My plan was to have him here. My plan was to watch him become a man and have his own family.
Crosstalk: Don't tell me he's in a better place.
Billy Morris: I don't want to hear that either. Because he's not with me. That's the place he should be. He's not with his mother. He's not with his brother and his sister. Just go tell people, I'm sorry for your loss. Anything I can do. It's just a pro tip. Just because, you know, nobody wants to hear that. And I can tell you from talking to other parents that have lost children, they all say the same thing.
Keith Vance: You notice I'm not saying anything right now.
Billy Morris: No, you did what you were supposed to do. I remember you said, brother, I'm sorry. Let me know if you need anything.
Keith Vance: Those are the perfect words. But even right now in this space, I can't speak to this. All I can do is feel it. That's why I'm not speaking to what I don't know.
Crosstalk: And, you know, sadly, as a father, and this is, I had to worry.
Billy Morris: You had to do what? Worry. Where was Ryder's heart when he died? When he went. Okay. You know, I don't know if you've seen these memes that have been going around recently, but it's like, as a parent, there are only certain, there are only, there's only one thing you can take to heaven with you, and that's your children. I know Ryder believed in God. But like I said, I just didn't know where his heart was overall. Sure. But then we had a friend that had done stupid kid stuff, wound up doing some time in jail. And his mother shared with us the letters that Ryder wrote to him. Hey, buddy, don't worry about it. You know, just do your time. God has a plan for you. You know, you're loved. You know, I mean, and that was so.
Keith Vance: It gave you comfort. Yes. Because. Because what he's been taught. Yes. Because even though. What you taught him, you see it being lived out in real life in a way that you didn't know about. Exactly. And that brought you comfort. Exactly. That those seeds that you're dropping in on him. Mm-hmm. Was bringing forth fruit. Yes. Absolutely. I'm glad you got that surety.
Billy Morris: God had to know that because. Besides losing him, obviously. The other issue was. You know, as a father, as supposedly the spiritual leader. The father of the family. Where was he? Mm-hmm. So. And again, you know, still I don't have any doubts with Avery. Because boy, she's she's the one that started me journaling doing prayer journals. and Reith is, you know, he believes he's still just being a goofball, but, you know, thank God it's just being a goofball, but he's being turned into a pretty darn good dad. So I'm happy about that. But, but the pain and the trauma and not just from the death, but I think up to it because we dealt with that for about 12 years altogether, you know, between when they started and Ryder passed away and then continuing a little bit after that with the devastation and what that brought, because we almost, you know, that my wife reached out to you. We were in a bad place.
Keith Vance: Let's talk about that a little for a little bit. How is she dealing with it? How are you dealing with it?
Billy Morris: Well, sadly, we're eight years out now, but immediately after, and this is where, again, this whole thing with, you know, my thoughts on how a mother's love for their, their children's just, I don't want to say deeper, but it's just different because again, I'm talking about when it first happened, like that process, how is she dealing with it?
Keith Vance: How are you dealing with it?
Billy Morris: Well, she went into a deep, dark depression, but she was always there for Avery. Okay. Because Avery was a freshman in high school. Remember Avery was on the line with 9-1-1. She had her first high school football game. She was a cheerleader, a freshman cheerleader a week afterwards. So we had to gather ourselves and go to her game. We showed up at her game.
Keith Vance: So life has a way of being cruel. You can't just hit the pause button on life and say, hey, let me grieve for a little bit. Yeah. You got to keep moving. Dude, that is one of the most shocking things in the world.
Billy Morris: Everybody continues on after that. Everybody keeps going. Yes. And you get lost in that. And it doesn't hit you until later.
Crosstalk: But like I said, Jenny went to a dark, dark, dark, dark place.
Billy Morris: And what else would you expect? Right. I, as we discussed, because we had a mortgage, we had cars, we had, I was back in the ER two weeks later. You had responsibility. You know, and as I was saying, you know, I'm dealing with overdoses in the ER. And there were days when I would walk through those Amulet's Bay doors and I would start crying. You know, get in my car, you know, cry most of the way home. And that went on over for over a year. And then I started to implode. Yeah. I became a real asshole. I treated my wife bad. Said and did things that I should have never done. And now looking back on it, I tell Jenny, I'm like, it's not an excuse, but it's almost like an out-of-body experience. I did. I turned my back on God. I stopped praying at night. Stopped reading my Bible. Again, I became a person I would not like to become.
Keith Vance: I just had a flashback. I just had a memory. Because you and I talked in your little shed or something. You were getting a steak or something ready. And you were questioning everything about God. You were on the verge of just turning your back on Him at that point. You were on the verge of, okay, I've lived this life. If this is where it goes and this is what you do. I remember feeling like, you talk about in your job you do surgery.
Billy Morris: Well, I do some procedures.
Keith Vance: But you're involved with watching surgeries being done. A virgin stuff, yes. I remember feeling like I was ill-equipped to do surgery on you. Because as a dad, I was feeling your emotions. Mm-hmm. And I was being very careful with my words. Because I didn't want my emotions to contaminate the surgery room. Mm-hmm. Like, I felt like my own visceral feelings would bolster what you're going through. Because I could feel it.
Billy Morris: Mm-hmm. And, you know. I've forgotten about that. What a testimony to Jenny. Because she reached out to you. She reached out to my mom. And I think, if I remember correctly, because it's such a blur sometimes. But, and if I remember correctly, she even told my mom, I think Bill's turned his back on God. I think she told my mom that. My mom called me.
Keith Vance: You were scaring her. She messaged me. Yeah. She said, Bill's going to leave me. It was getting bad. She said, he's going to leave. I'm afraid he's going to leave me. I don't know how to help him. Well, you just talk to him.
Billy Morris: You know what, though? We're only together because of her. And by that, I mean, because she was coming out of the depression. I mean, you're never totally out of that depression. I mean, even now, we're not. This is what amazes me about her. She is so intuitive with the way that she loves. The people she loves, she loves so well just by the change of their voice. Just by a little twitch, she picks that stuff up. I call her CIA Jenny because when she gets into something, man, she keeps going until she figures it out. And so, and I think I may have told you, but I was seeing a counselor. But he was just justifying everything. There's only one absolute white. There's only one absolute black. Everything else is gray. But I knew enough. And this is where I think the Holy Spirit was working in me. You know better than that. You know you were taught differently. You know there are certain rules and certain things you should abide by. And so I realized I needed a Christian counselor. And so I did. Finally, a lady that had been there for us, her name is Dr. Amy Trout. She sent me a guy who ironically was an ER physician for a number of years. But the stress, he had like three or four heart attacks. So they told him to get out of the ER and do something else. So he became a psychiatrist. And so I did a few sessions with him. But the one that really kind of hammered this home was after like three, four sessions, he was like, Bill, I want to try something with you. Amen. I want you to close your eyes, take a couple deep breaths. I'm going to ask you a question, and I want you to answer it. Don't explain it. Don't justify it. He's like, I know you work in the ER. You want everything explained. Don't. Just tell me. There's no right or wrong. And he said to me, what were the first three thoughts and feelings that came to your head when you walked in and saw them working right? Fear, abandonment, and dread. He's like, all right, let's go through these now. Why the fear? Because I was going to have to tell my wife that our son was dead. I was scared to death. Why the dread? And again, as I said, I knew my life had changed from that moment on, and not for the better. I knew that everything from here on out was different. And he's like, why the abandonment? And as I told you before, I used to go out and pray every night, every night, protect my kids, watch over them, protect the family, and God didn't listen.
Crosstalk: You felt like you were abandoned by God. Yep.
Billy Morris: And he said, listen, he's like, there is the issue. He's like, and I'm not saying you made any conscious decisions of the abandonment. He's like, but the one thing that you're so sure of in life is your faith. Because I've been a believer since, gosh, since I can remember. You know, I was raised in a Christian family. And I don't ever remember a time I didn't, you know, or whatever, or even had doubts, really. But he's like, so imagine what that does to someone when the one thing you're sure of, your foundation, fails you. Or at least thinks you, you think fails you.
Keith Vance: It feels like it did.
Billy Morris: Yes. He's like, so again, I'm not excusing the decisions you've made. I'm not excusing your actions or the things that you've said or done or treated, you know, people. He's like, but what does that do to your subconscious? You know, God turned his back on you. Why should you continue to live the way you think God would want you to?
Crosstalk: And that was a slap in the face. And seeing Jenny come around to an extent to where I crumbled.
Billy Morris: And now she's the strong one. She's the one that's Still Strong. She's the one that's carrying this family and doing what she needs to do emotionally for our children, for everything to carry us and drag us through this. Because I faltered. I fail.
Keith Vance: So what's funny is she's taking on your role. Yes. We talked about roles, our roles.
Crosstalk: Mm-hmm.
Keith Vance: So you're supposed to be doing that for her. You're supposed to be protecting her, sheltering her, covering her. Mm-hmm. She's not getting that. So she takes on that role. And did it very well. She takes on that role.
Billy Morris: Yes. And that's why I tell my kids, I'm like, marriage is not a 50-50 thing. There are some days it's 90-10. That's true. Wow. During that time, it was 99-1. Wow. And she didn't complain about it. I mean, we had fights. I mean, there were times we had it out. But she didn't give up. Mm-hmm. She didn't toss me to the side. She had every right to. I mean, I was being a complete dick. You know, I was like, there was nothing in me at that point in time that I would think that woman would want to keep.
Keith Vance: Let me gather some thoughts because there's a lot of good stuff here. Let me try to tie some stuff together. And we're not done yet. We're done when you say we're done. When you think about that kind of love that she had for you. Mm-hmm. God's word says that when we were enemies against him, he lavished his love on us. Mm-hmm. When we wanted nothing to do with him. Mm-hmm. When we were as that word that you described towards him. Mm-hmm. He set his affection on us. Yeah. He chose to love us in spite of he's not getting anything back. Yeah. She demonstrated that type of love towards you.
Billy Morris: Yeah. And you know what's funny? It's like I heard it. Have you ever heard of Philip Anthony Michael? No. He's a pastor. 28-19, I think is his church up in Atlanta. But he put it this way, which is so crazy, and it just makes such sense. If you knew. I knew. I knew. I knew. Karen was going to stab you in the back, leave you and take all your money in a year from now. How would that change you towards her? He's like, but God knew that. God knew we were going to do that. God knew that we were going to put his son on a cross. Jesus knew it. He knew Peter was going to deny him three times.
Crosstalk: And he still loved him.
Crosstalk: He still did it. That's the kind of love...
Crosstalk: That when Jenny tells me she loves me more, I can't argue that. Yeah. Because she proved it.
Crosstalk: Yeah.
Keith Vance: That's powerful. The other thought that I had when you... You listed three words. One was dread. The heavy one was abandonment. Although we may feel abandoned by God as Christians, we're never abandoned by God. Hanging on the cross. My God, my God. Why have you forsaken me? God, the holy one, the just one, who can have no... He is light. He can have no association with darkness. The sins of the world, our sins. He bore our sins. And that perfect God, that righteous being, had to turn his back as his own son because he was associated with our sin. And I don't know the Trinity. I don't understand the Trinity. But you have these... You got the Father, you got the Son, and you got the Holy Spirit where they're in perfect communion, perfect unity for all eternity. And for that, for that Son, who's been in perfect unity with his Father, to say, Why have you abandoned me? And not for his own sins, but for our sins. So that many sons may come to Christ, that we will never experience abandonment. Because he was abandoned so that we could be made sons.
Billy Morris: Yeah, God had to turn his back on.
Keith Vance: So when you experience these emotions, your wife's love, it shows the love of Christ. Yes, it does. When you say abandonment, and then it gives you a sense, it gives you a sense that, because you experience that I can't have of how you felt. And then a better appreciation that I can't have for how Christ must have felt on the cross when he didn't feel abandoned. He was abandoned. Yeah, he was, absolutely. He was abandoned. And had to be. And had to be. And he did it. And he still did it. He did it because he loves us. You don't have these conversations we're having when life's great, there's money in the bank, everybody's doing what we're supposed to do. It takes tragedy and hardship and trials of life to talk about the things that we're talking about.
Billy Morris: Well, I mean, like you said, I mean, I think we all, it's easy to be faithful and, you know, and everything's perfectly fine. But, you know, where do we go in those times when it's not? You know, when, you know, again, you lose a child or, you know, you go bankrupt or, you know, you know, tragedy. So your home's destroyed, you know, where are you at that point? How do you respond? I didn't respond well. Well, then it's okay. Yeah. But thank God my wife did. Right. You know, and it can be the other way. I mean, I'm sure there are relationships where it was, you know, the husband that did that. You know, it just so happened with the circumstances and everything that happened. That's the way it, you know, it shook out. And, you know, I told you, I'm like, you know, I look back now and, sure, I don't really see the good in what happened. And like, but if I am a Christian, as I say, I have to have faith that there is something there, that it was for a reason, even though I don't understand it and I don't see it. And I still don't. It's eight years out and I still don't see it. But I have to believe that it's there.
Keith Vance: We definitely live in a fallen world. Things won't be made right until he returns back. Not at all. So the things that touch our lives, unexplainable.
Crosstalk: But it's the world which we live in.
Keith Vance: And to be able to do what you're doing now without the answers. Yeah. I want my son back. But to be able to communicate, which I think you did in a very good way publicly, that someone else who may be going through this or it could be on someone else's roadmap, their destiny that are going to go through this. To bear one another's burdens. To take the stigma off of like what you said, how you're feeling to the devil likes isolating. And then you have your own thoughts being rehearsed in your mind, but you got demonic thoughts being rehearsed in your mind. And that isolationism to be able to rip the band. They'd obviously say, hey, here's what I went through. Here's what you're going to go through. Here's what you're going to feel. It's normal. Talk to somebody.
Billy Morris: Jenny breaks down daily still. Still. And there are times, you know, a few months ago, Jenny was having me move some stuff around the house, and we had this basket that was sitting on the stairs, and there was a picture of Ryder on it. I've seen that picture a million times, but for some reason, at that moment, as I was walking by and glanced at it, it was like my heart was ripped open again. I busted down crying, you know. I mean, all it takes is a song. Sometimes there's a song, some lyric in some song that I've never heard before or something. You know, I mean, again, Jenny, God bless her. She's just so, you know, like I said, on a daily still.
Keith Vance: I don't think, and I don't know, but I don't think I would ever want to get over it.
Billy Morris: You know what?
Keith Vance: I agree with you.
Billy Morris: And, you know, this is a strange, strange thing. You know, our house is like a shrine to Ryder. You know, we've got, gosh, I want to say it's six foot by three foot collage of nothing but his fishing pictures that sits in our hallway. Under the TV in the living room, we got a huge picture of him and then pictures of the family. But we have a friend that lost their son. She doesn't have any pictures around. She said they just make her sad. So everybody's grief is different, right? I wouldn't want my house any other way. I want that shrine of Ryder. I don't ever want to, and I'm not saying that they're forgetting him, but I think that sometimes people just can't handle the emotions of, or the pain of loss. Because even though it's with you daily, like I said, walking past that picture just flared up a little bit more than normal, right? Again, you know, and that's the thing. Like, what was it? Yesterday, actually, Reith posted a picture I hadn't seen of him and Ryder. I don't know where he found it, but, I mean, those things make me happy. But there are people out there that just, they don't want to see them. Again, I don't understand it, but everybody's different. I don't judge those people at all, you know, but it's like everybody deals with it differently. And there's no right or wrong way. I mean, you got to make your way. You got to do what you can to continue to function and be there for, you know, the rest of the family.
Keith Vance: What questions am I not asking you that I need to?
Billy Morris: I know we went over, but through this, I just want people to understand anybody that goes through this, you're not alone. There are other people out there. It's good to find support groups to do that. As men, nobody can, well, as a person, period, nobody can force you into therapy, right? You got to do it when you're ready. But you don't want to let your life get on the edge of destruction before you do it. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and I've told you, I've had a couple of my clients come in that similar happen. And I want to say of the three or four that I can remember right off the top of my head, their husbands were doing the same thing. Husbands were not taking it well, but they weren't doing therapy and they weren't dealing with it. And I know at least two of them have divorced now. Dude, that's a hard thing to get through. And I think most couples do not make it through this. Um, I mean, I'm happy that we do know a couple that have as long, you know, like we have, but for those people, you got to do what you got to do to keep the family together. For the people on the outside that are watching this, cause it is like watching a tragedy. You see a friend lose a child here. You feel helpless. Don't just reach out. Hey, how are you doing? Hey, can I stop by? Um, you know, come out to lunch. Don't be judgmental. Cause even though you might know the person, you don't know what's going on behind those four walls. Right. You know, I mean, we tried, I mean, we tried to hide it, you know, because we were scared of what people would think. Um, and I'm not saying that's wrong and I'm not saying we should have advertised it, but we should have been not so ashamed because we didn't raise our children like that, you know? But again, you're fighting again, the principalities, the spirits of this world. You're not, and, and you are in a fight to save your child's life and not just with the drugs, but just in this world today in general, such a degenerate society anymore.
Keith Vance: Okay. You know, I'm, I'm making mental notes. I'm, I'm listening to this and I'm, I'm digesting it.
Billy Morris: Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, those are the, those are the big things. I mean, you know, not everybody has a marriage as strong as Jenny and I, not everybody has a marriage as strong as you and Karen. Right. But that doesn't mean it can't be, you know, and, and I am, I'm more in love with my wife now than I have ever been.
Keith Vance: My pastor, Wednesday night, we were doing a Bible study.
Crosstalk: And somebody brought up something. I can't remember what it was. But he said, he said, divorce is hard. He said marriage is hard. And he made these different analogies. This is hard. That is hard. He said, choose your hard. Yeah.
Keith Vance: Choose your hard. He said, but choose the hard that's grounded in righteousness, goodness, gentleness, faith. So I would say when it comes to relationships, marriage is hard. Staying together is hard. But I would choose that hard. Yeah. Because that hard, there's a positive outcome. Don't know when that positive is going to come out. Yeah. But there's a positive outcome.
Billy Morris: Well, remember, God set up the family unit. So Satan is going to attack it. Yes. So, you know, it's like the wolf's always outside the door.
Crosstalk: Anything else? I think I'm good if you are.
Keith Vance: You said something early on. You told your boys, hey, be like that girl. They showed you a video. Mm-hmm. You mentioned the guy at the ER that worked on your son and some people that brought him in.
Crosstalk: Yeah.
Keith Vance: Would it be wise for grandparents and parents to have a conversation with their kids and grandkids, like a true heart to heart and say, hey.
Billy Morris: Yeah, it's not going to hurt. I mean, you know, depending on. Hey, listen, you're not in trouble. Yeah.
Keith Vance: But just to get to know them where they're at and say, hey, I just want to know anything on that phone that's hurting you, that you're vexing your soul with. Yeah, dude. And, you know. Any relationships that you're being vexed with. Like, you're not in trouble. I just, and create an environment or a safe space where we can have these conversations. Because the Bible says that the thoughts of a man's heart are like a deep well. Mm-hmm. There's these thoughts way down there. And it takes someone with some wisdom to pull them out. Oh, yeah. There's things that would feel like I would rather die than someone knowing something about me.
Billy Morris: We all have those.
Keith Vance: And our kids are living in that. Mm-hmm. So how do we have a conversation with them where we're pulling that stuff out so that they can have healing and we can do what we're supposed to do?
Billy Morris: Well, that's the relationship. And, again, I go back to Jenny because, you know, I was more the disciplinarian. But the boys would admit things to Jenny. She would be like, I wish they just wouldn't even tell me some of this stuff. Wow. But at least they know. At least they were telling somebody. Yes. Yes. You know, we don't, you know, occasionally we'd have those conversations. Now, you can't tell the boys that I told you. And then she would tell me. And I'd be like, why did you even tell me? Because I just want to run. I just want to go in there and rip something up. But, man, that relationship that she had with them. I mean, I look at it now and it's like, how many tragedies were avoided because of that? How many times did she steer them in another direction to help keep tragedy from happening? So, I mean, again, it's like, you know, I'm at the, you know, of course, the kids are grown now. They know they can talk to either one of us about anything. But there has to be that trust. And it doesn't have to be with both parents. I don't know that it has to be. I mean, it's nice, but can you really trust that many people? And I say that, but it's like, I mean, how many people could sit down with their mom and dad and say, hey, you know, I'm doing this and this and this. It's usually one of the parents they feel that they can talk that way to. And, hey, you know what? This is what's going on. And I need to help with this. And this is how I'm feeling. Right. In our family, everybody goes to Karen. Well, you know, you and I are. And I'm so glad. There are times I was like, thank God they did not tell me that.
Keith Vance: I'm so glad. It's important. It's important to.
Billy Morris: But again, that's the role that God has set up in the family, right? Your mother should be that person. I mean, I can tell my mom anything, you know, and I mean, I didn't have a dad around to really do that with, but I can tell my mom. And so. Dad's the protector, right? Dad's the disciplinarian. Dad's the one that, you know, that provides for us. Mom is the emotional one. Mom is the comforting. Like even my grandbaby, you know, pop-pop's all fun, right? Pop-pop throws her in the air. I run around with her. She leads me around by the hand. You know, we do everything. She bumps her knee. She's running to Jenny. She's over there. Ninny. She's tired. She's laying on Ninny's lap, you know, but when it's fun, it's me. But so, but even a baby knows that. So that tells me that that's how it's supposed to be. Right. I mean, it doesn't mean you can't be, and it doesn't mean that I shouldn't have that type of relationship with, um, Wreath, you know, who I have left, but that's just kind of the norm and God kind of set it up that way. So I think it's probably natural. Like I said, now I'm thinking about it. Even Braille's two and a half years old and she knows it.
Keith Vance: I forgot about another memory. There was, I can't remember the circumstances that brought it around.
Crosstalk: If I had to guess, my son Thomas was
Crosstalk: 14. If I had to guess, he might've been younger, might've been older, but something happened and, um, he was compelled to, uh, he was compelled to have a conversation with me and Karen and he just let it all out.
Keith Vance: He just, he just that well just shot to the top, everything he was going through.
Billy Morris: And thank God he was comfortable enough to do it.
Keith Vance: And he said, he's, he was, he was on the verge of going one way or the other. And he felt this, he felt this, man, I just let the kid talk and it was heartbreaking for me to, uh, hear the stuff that he was struggling with and he's sleeping 30 feet away from me. Yeah. You understand what I'm saying? Yeah.
Billy Morris: That's what I'm saying.
Keith Vance: How, how many times that he was hanging on to, the stuff that he was dealing with, like he, he bought a joint from the neighbor, you know, he's like, I just was wanting to know what this felt like. He's like, just talking about these little, little, little, this little, this path of destruction. And that was God's, man, that was God's grace to us for him to be able to talk. And I just, I, I, I didn't like, I was hearing, I was feeling so guilty that he's feeling all these heavy emotions and I was oblivious to it. And he's sleeping underneath the same roof. You follow me?
Billy Morris: Yeah. That's what I tell you. Jenny can tell by the sound of their voice. I mean, like Avery will call, you know, and actually this whole thing, that's why Avery's getting her PhD. She wants a PhD in psychology. She wants to do, um, um, counseling for addiction, but God bless her. She wants to set up, cause there's a, there's a, there's a big, huge black hole between leaving a, um, a rehab in life. There's not this transition there, right? It's just like a drop. Yes, exactly. Here you go. Here are your keys. I mean, don't get me wrong. They tell you, Hey, you need to change people, places, and things. You need to do this. You need to do that. Need to go meetings, do all that. But there's no accountability in between. Okay. And again, unless you're finally at that point where you're going to make the changes, you get sucked back in. So that's what she wants to do. A nonprofit, an organization that helps with that transfer, that transition. So like maybe you get out and you call them up, Hey, I'm feeling this way today. All right, let's, let's deal with this. Let's take care of this because they don't have that. You can go to a halfway house, but sadly, most of these halfway houses, guess what? There's drugs in the halfway houses. Yeah. And so, so this whole thing has molded the last eight years, right? The one, and I say one, you know, instant, but, but it's like, it's like a star exploding in the middle of your universe. Everything else just kind of scatters. And then you're just trying to put the pieces back together. And so that's what Avery's decided to do. Like, you know, we, I tried to get her to go to PA school and she did that for a little bit at UF, but then she was like, um, you know, I, my heart's not in it. I just, I love psychology. I want to help people that way. Go do it, go do it just because I I'm doing what I'm doing. I do not expect you to come into the family business. You do that. She's freaking, she graduated UF with a 3.8 GPA. She's at USF and their master's program, getting in their PhD program. She's got like a fricking 4.0, but she loves that stuff. So looking back now, I see how it molds things, but you never get over the loss completely. And you see how now the loss has affected Jenny and I, you see how the loss has affected Wreath and Avery. So it's like, I look back on it and some of it is happening for good. Like Avery, like Jenny and I, thank God we were able to pull through and be there and continue this family. And continue to be strong for everybody, but you lose sight of that and the grief.
Billy Morris: And with other people on the outside looking in, they can't understand it. And here's the thing, I don't want you to understand it, because the only way you can really understand it is for it to happen to you. And Jenny and I have this saying, we belong in a club that we don't want to be in, and we hope nobody else joins.
Keith Vance: Don't want any more members.
Billy Morris: Yes, we don't want any more. Even my worst enemies, even people that I might strangle to death on live TV, don't want them to lose a kid.
Keith Vance: Roy Leitz was on the podcast a few weeks ago. He lost his son. And that's what he said. He said, I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. I would not. I would not. He wasn't able to speak to the loss, but you articulated it very well. And I know that's a process to get to this point, but you... You helped me understand that. And I... There are no coincidences for me to be doing this. It's outside of my comfort zone. Yeah, yeah. You and I became friends. This came into your life. And to have this platform to share very articulately how that process and where you're at. I pray that God would use us in the lives of people and reach out to you or...
Billy Morris: Yeah, yeah. That's all I prayed last night. I was... And even on the ride here this morning. I just hope that, you know, somewhere... I don't even care if it's one person. Sure. You know, I just hope it helps somebody. And, you know, to kind of put it in perspective for people that have children. And I... Because, again, I have people that are like, you know, I can't understand. No, you can't. But kind of think of it this way. Which one of your children can you live the rest of your life without? You can't. You can't think of that. Whether you have seven kids or you have one kid. It's like, I can't imagine my life without one of them. Period. Period.
Keith Vance: You want to... I remember when my kids started getting older.
Crosstalk: And I felt this. Like... Hmm.
Keith Vance: There's a time in your kid's life where you're the man. Oh, yeah. They just want to be with dad and want to be dad. That's right. And there's a time where they get out and they have... There's more influences. Mm-hmm. And I just remember as more influences came into our children's lives, I remember feeling like I just want to bubble wrap them and lock them up in a room. Mm-hmm. Until they're in adults and then say, okay, now you can go. Yeah. You can't do that. You can't do that. Mm-hmm. We live in this world that's a dangerous place. There's adversaries on every side. There's all types of things that you can imagine. And we're called to raise them in this environment. Yeah. So... What you shared today was helpful. I'm going to digest it. And again, I just... I appreciate you being on here and communicating this. Yeah.
Billy Morris: No, thanks for having me on, man.
Keith Vance: I appreciate it. I'm compelled to pray. We prayed last week. I'm compelled to pray. Would you be willing to do the prayer? Yeah. Oh, you want me to do it? Would you be willing to? Sure, I'll do it. Let's do it.
Billy Morris: All right, man. All right, brother. So, dear Heavenly Father, we come to you today, Lord, and we are thankful for these opportunities like this, Lord. I just pray that this message gets out to somebody that needs it, whether they need it now or they're going to need it in the future, even if it's something that doesn't really apply to this, but some message that will help them through these times, Lord. And as for me, I do. I pray that there comes a time when I can look back and say, okay, this is why this happens. Help us to remember that we don't always have to have that clarity because you do. Because your master plan is so much further than we can see, so much further than we can comprehend. I remember reading the other night in the Bible that not even the heavens can contain you. So, Father, we're thankful for that. We're thankful for not understanding, but we're also thankful for that at the end, when we finally are in your arms, that we will. So, Lord, I pray for clarity. I pray for just health. And I just pray that you would, all those that are grieving and searching right now, I just pray that you would comfort and watch over them. In Christ's name we pray. Amen. Amen, brother. I appreciate you, man.
Intro voiceover: No, man. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That's okay. Still Strong. Watch me rise my way. Slow growth turns into real change. I found joy in the simple days. In honest work and faith. Still Strong.