Automatic episode summary
Still Strong's third episode is a life story, and Keith Vance says he came in unprepared on purpose so the conversation could go where it needed to go. His guest, Efrain Negron, is a friend and a working partner: Vance runs a framing company, Negron has been in construction sales for forty-three years, and they talk almost daily. What Vance wants to get at is a phrase. Nearly every call between them opens or closes with Negron saying "God is good. Always." Vance says those three words have reset him in the middle of hard working weeks. Negron's answer is short: "Don't thank me. Thank God." The longer answer takes more than three hours.
Negron was born in Manhattan to a Puerto Rican family that had migrated to New York for a better life; an aunt came first, at fifteen, and worked as a seamstress. His father left when he was two. His earliest memories are the Bronx across from the zoo, then Bedford-Stuyvesant, then the South Bronx of the 1970s: rubble, burning buildings, gangs between him and the store, an apartment cold enough to see their breath. He tells listeners to look it up for themselves. He speaks about his uncles and aunts with affection and without cover, naming addiction, alcohol and jail, and says more than once that none of it is meant to hurt anyone and that he prayed that morning for words to say it in a righteous way. He also discloses that he was molested more than once as a child, and that it always came from within the household circle.
His mother, a single woman raising four children, died of colon cancer in January 1982, two weeks short of a birthday he was about to turn. He was the oldest. The children were split among relatives, and he and his sister moved house to house in New Jersey, Queens and Brooklyn; he says he felt like a burden. In Bushwick he quit school and broke loose. He had been caught smoking pot at twelve, had tested into Aviation High School in Queens, and wanted the Navy.
Then a phone call. An uncle by marriage rang on February 22, 1982 with a job at a Bayonne, New Jersey lumberyard, and Negron started the next day cleaning bathrooms at $4.15 an hour. He moved into the mill, taught himself the forklift on lunch breaks, stayed six years, and still calls it the best yard he ever worked for. He met Sonia in the summer of 1983 and took her to the Bronx Zoo on their first date; they married, and he had two children with her alongside her daughter. He is direct about what ended it. He was drinking, partying and womanizing, and he got caught. She moved to Florida with the children, and he followed in February 1994, taking $7.15 an hour to be near them. Vance draws the contrast Negron will not: he spent a childhood looking for a father who never came after him, and when it was his turn he went after his kids.
What follows is a run of hard resets. He confronted his children's stepfather over a mark on his daughter's neck, then moved across the state to Fort Myers to keep himself out of jail. The 2008 crash took his job, his 401(k), his house, his health and the relationship he had rebuilt with his ex-wife; he dropped from about 250 pounds to 156 and says he related to the book of Job. He worked seven jobs in one year until a lumberyard opening put him back in the industry he loves.
Vance keeps pulling him off generalities and back to what kept him alive. Negron points to the Our Father, learned for a first communion around age eleven, as the prayer he said in every dark room long before he was walking with God. He says he will be sixty-one soon, that he has been baptized, that he has come to love a quiet he once could not bear, and that he carries Joshua 1:9, 1 Corinthians 13:13, John 3:16, Ezekiel 36:26 and Psalm 46:10. He closes the episode with the three words Vance asks him for.
Speakers
- Keith Vance host
- Efrain Negron guest
Chapters
- 0:01 God is good, always
Keith explains why he invited Efrain Negron: nearly every phone call between them starts or ends with "God is good. Always." They trade gifts on the mic, a Still Strong hat for two small daily devotionals, one of them for Keith and his wife Karen.
- 6:28 The first hour belongs to God
Efrain describes waking at 2:30 or 3:00 and giving the first hour to prayer and the Bible before walking into a day of stress, and says it took intention to build, like building muscle. Keith stops on his phrase "it doesn't work for everyone" to insist it has to be grounded in Scripture or it is false hope.
- 12:00 Born into chaos in the Bronx
Efrain prefaces his story by saying none of it is meant to offend his family, then traces the migration from Puerto Rico, the aunts and uncles he loves and their addictions, alcohol and time in jail, and the father who left when he was two. His first memories are the Bronx across from the zoo, followed by Bedford-Stuyvesant and then the South Bronx.
- 27:31 Things no child should see
Asked how long he wants to stay in this pocket, Efrain says he is no longer ashamed of it, and discloses being molested more than once, always from within the household circle. He also describes a fire at his grandmother's, a charred body in an abandoned building, and dogs thrown from a roof.
- 32:00 His mother's death, and the split
His mother died of colon cancer in January 1982, and Efrain, the oldest of four, describes cooking, laundry and fending for themselves while she was in the hospital. Afterward the siblings were divided among relatives; he and his sister moved house to house, he quit school in Bushwick, and he broke loose.
- 49:28 The purse, and one prayer
Keith asks how God preserved him before he knew God was there. Efrain answers with the Footprints prayer and Romans 8:28, tells the story of letting go of an older woman's purse mid-grab because she reminded him of his grandmother, and names the Our Father as the one prayer that carried him through suicidal stretches.
- 1:05:41 Homeless, then a lumberyard
Put out of his aunt's place, Efrain was homeless close to a month, riding with the Guardian Angels and sleeping in the subways before a patrol leader took him in. Then an uncle called with a job in Bayonne, and he started cleaning bathrooms at $4.15 an hour, learning the mill and the forklift on his own time. Keith turns it into counsel for young workers.
- 1:39:48 Sonia, the affair, and Florida
Efrain meets Sonia in 1983, takes her to the Bronx Zoo, marries and builds a family in a crooked, freezing rented house in Bayonne. He names his own adultery plainly, describes contemplating suicide when she left for Florida with the children, and follows them south in 1994 at $7.15 an hour.
- 2:02:20 Standing between his kids and harm
His children tell him their stepfather has been hitting them, and his daughter comes to him with a mark on her neck. He goes after the man with a baseball bat, the police are called, and within days he takes a job in Fort Myers to put a coast between himself and a night in jail.
- 2:10:55 The 2008 crash takes it all
Eight to ten months unemployed, the 401(k) drained, the house in foreclosure, diabetic shock and a drop from about 250 pounds to 156. His wife leaves during the same stretch, he relates to the book of Job, and he works seven jobs in one year before a lumberyard opening puts him back in the game.
- 2:30:51 Giving, being used, and the quiet
Efrain talks about being a giver and a caretaker and about people who take that for granted; Keith answers with stewardship, saying that what he has is not his own anyway. Efrain says what caring for his dying mother taught him about who is really your partner, and admits he now cannot get enough of the quiet he once could not bear.
- 2:47:10 Baptized, and a heart of flesh
Efrain says he was upset with God in the moment but not for long, compares it to a son's anger at a father, and calls his baptism one of the best feelings of his life. He names the verses tattooed on him, tells the story of the cousin he lost to an overdose, and closes with the three words Keith asks for.
Key takeaways
- 7:46 Efrain says he has always been an early riser who used to get up and hit the day hard. For the last couple of years the first hour has gone to God instead, and he insists it was not natural: he had to force himself into it. He compares it to building muscle, where you have to intentionally do the work.
- 1:31:30 Keith's counsel to young workers, prompted by Efrain thinking his foreman was picking on him: if nobody at work is asking you to do anything, ask yourself why, because leaders give work to the people who get it done. Then, humbly and respectfully, make sure that value is reflected in your pay, since owners preoccupied with their own obligations do forget the people who never speak up.
- 3:12:07 Efrain's closing frame for his own life: God gifted him, he is God's story, and a kid like him can still thrive rather than merely survive. He is emphatic on the distinction, and then gives Keith the three words the episode has been circling.
Pull quotes
Keith refuses to let the phrase "it doesn't work for everyone" pass. He says it has to be grounded in the truth of Scripture, and if it is not, it is a false hope; then it does work, because it is not by man's might but a work of God through us.
Efrain discloses that he was molested more than once as a child. He says he was ashamed of it as a young man and is not ashamed now, because it is his testimony, and he adds that it always happened from within, never from an outsider.
At around fifteen he ran at an older woman to snatch her purse and let go mid-grab because she reminded him of his grandmother. He is not proud of it, says the police were looking for him and he lied about it, and that his family concluded from episodes like it that he would end up a junkie, in jail or dead.
An uncle by marriage called him on February 22, 1982 with a job at a lumberyard in Bayonne, New Jersey, and he started the next day. He cleaned the bathrooms and the offices first, then the mill, and used his lunch breaks to teach himself the forklift, at $4.15 an hour and a commute of two and a half hours each way from Brooklyn.
During the worst of 2008, his brother came over and gave him a pitying pat on the face. Efrain's answer: don't you feel sorry for me, bring a plate of food if you want, but never pity me. Help me, but don't have pity for me.
Scripture & context
- 12:00 Before telling any of it, Efrain sets a condition: nothing he says is meant to offend his family, he takes pride in his heritage, and he prayed that morning for words to express himself in a righteous way. He returns to that caveat repeatedly while naming addiction, alcoholism and jail among the aunts and uncles he says he loves and learned from.
- 20:32 He describes the South Bronx of the 1970s: rubble, abandoned and burning buildings, walking past the Savage Skulls to get to the store, and an apartment where the lights would go off and you could see your breath. His mother was a single woman with four children. He says it was not tough at the time, it was simply life.
- 49:28 Asked how God protected him before he knew God was there, Efrain reaches first for the Footprints prayer and then cites Romans 8:18 and 8:28. He describes seeing two sets of prints when things were all right and one set when God was carrying him, and says he had to go through it because there was a purpose.
- 57:40 The Our Father, which he places at Matthew 6:9 and learned through catechism and first communion around age eleven, is the prayer he says literally saved his life. He was not walking with God at the time and calls it faith the size of a mustard seed, but says he would pray it in the dark places and go to sleep.
- 1:55:57 Efrain moved to Florida in February 1994 to be near his children after his wife left with them, going from about $18 an hour to $7.15 and starting over. He says it was the best move of his life. Keith names the contrast Efrain does not: he had spent his childhood looking for a father who never looked for him, and he went after his own kids.
- 2:52:34 Efrain says he has nothing but scripture on him and names the verses he carries: Joshua 1:9, 1 Corinthians 13:13, John 3:16, Ezekiel 36:26 and Psalm 46:10. He adds that there is no telling how spiritually rich he would be had he done this thirty years earlier.
- 3:01:02 His cousin Mikey, who was like a brother to him, called in despair while Efrain was loading trucks ahead of a hurricane. Meaning it as tough love, Efrain asked him what he wanted to be told, that he was better off dead or in jail, then told him to get in his car and come over; Mikey never showed and later died of an overdose. Days before the body was found, Efrain had stood for hours outside a building in Miami waiting for his brother, not knowing it was the city morgue.
Questions answered
- Why does Efrain Negron say "God is good" on every phone call?
- Keith opens the episode by telling him that nearly every call between them either starts or ends with those three words, and that they have reset his perspective in the middle of hard working weeks. Efrain's immediate answer is short: "Don't thank me. Thank God." The longer answer is the rest of the episode, a life he says should by every reasonable calculation have ended with him a junkie, in jail or dead. Keith asks him to close the show with the phrase, and he does. jump · 2:13
- What does Efrain's morning routine look like, and why did he build it?
- He is up at 2:30 or 3:00 most days and says he has never slept well. Years ago he would get up and immediately go at the day; for the last couple of years the first hour goes to God instead, thanking him for another day, praying, and opening the Bible before walking into work. He is clear that it did not come naturally: he had to force himself into the mindset, and he compares it to building muscle, where you have to intentionally do the work. jump · 7:46
- What was his childhood in the South Bronx actually like?
- He describes the South Bronx of the 1970s and tells listeners to look it up for themselves: rubble he played in, buildings burning and abandoned, the Savage Skulls between him and the store. His mother was a single woman with four children, the lights would go off, and the apartment was cold enough that they could see their breath. He is careful not to dramatize it, saying it was not tough at the time, it was simply life and it was natural to him, and that he is blessed today to have gone through it. jump · 20:32
- What happened to Efrain and his siblings after his mother died?
- She died of colon cancer in January 1982; he says he was sixteen, two weeks short of a birthday, and the oldest of four. The children were divided among relatives, an aunt in New Jersey, an uncle's house, then another aunt's in Brooklyn, and he and his sister shuffled between them. He is careful to say the family did the best they could with what they had, but he felt like an inconvenience and a burden. The siblings who used to follow him like a pack of ducks have kept their distance since, and he says that is still hard for him. jump · 32:00
- What kept Efrain alive through the suicidal stretches?
- One prayer. He learned the Our Father through catechism and his first communion around age eleven, and says that in every dark place he found himself in he would say that prayer and go to sleep. He is explicit that he was not walking with God at the time and was not, in his words, fully submerged; he calls it faith the size of a mustard seed. He cannot name a date when God intervened, only that the prayer was always there. jump · 57:40
- How did Efrain get into the lumber business?
- After his aunt put him out he was homeless for close to a month, sleeping in the subways and at the Guardian Angels' headquarters church in Greenwich Village until a patrol leader took him in. An uncle by marriage who worked at a lumberyard in Bayonne, New Jersey called him on February 22, 1982 with a job, and he started the next day. He began by cleaning the bathrooms and the offices, moved into the mill, and taught himself to drive the forklift on his lunch breaks at $4.15 an hour. He stayed six years and still calls it the best lumberyard he has ever worked for. jump · 1:05:41
- Why did he take a pay cut from about $18 an hour to $7.15 to move to Florida?
- His marriage ended after he was caught in an affair, and his wife moved to Florida with the children. He says he could not be without them, landed in Florida in February 1994, and started over at a building products yard in Pompano Beach. Keith draws the contrast Efrain will not draw for himself: Efrain spent his childhood looking for a father who never came after him, and when it was his turn he went after his kids. Efrain says it was the best move of his life, even though he holds his head down in shame for what caused it. jump · 1:55:57
- What did the 2008 crash cost him?
- He was out of work eight to ten months and depleted his 401(k) trying to hold on to what he had, and his house went into foreclosure. He went into diabetic shock and dropped from about 250 pounds to 156, with no food in the refrigerator, and says he thought those were his last days. The relationship he had rebuilt with his ex-wife ended during the same stretch, when she left while he had no job. He says he was forty and change, and that he related to the book of Job. jump · 2:15:08
- How did he climb back out after 2008?
- One step at a time, and seven jobs in a single year. He sold coffee for a roaster in Cape Coral, worked for a building supply company and a window company, and took anything that might turn into a sale while trying to find the next mortgage payment. A lumberyard opening in Lehigh finally put him back into the industry he loves. He also describes refusing his brother's pity when he came over and patted his face, telling him to bring a plate of food if he wanted, but never to feel sorry for him. jump · 2:25:55
- What does Efrain say to someone who is at the end of themselves?
- Find peace and quiet, and pray, even if it is only a couple of words, because learning to pray is a process you grow into. Write down the bad things that have happened, but write down the blessings too, because it is really not that bad and other people have it worse. He says he would rather have a broken bone than a broken heart, since a broken heart leaves a scar you keep, and he has many. His last counsel is that everything is intentional and it hurts, but there is always a light, so keep going for it. jump · 3:08:59
Helpful links
book
- Man of Strength (daily devotional) One of the two small daily devotionals Efrain hands Keith on the mic; he describes it as one hundred short devotionals he reads most days.
verse
- Matthew 6:9-13, the Lord's Prayer The Our Father, which Efrain learned for his first communion and says carried him through his darkest nights.
- Romans 8:28 Cited alongside Romans 8:18 when Efrain is asked how God preserved him before he knew God was there.
- Ezekiel 36:26 The heart of stone traded for a heart of flesh; Keith paraphrases it and Efrain names the reference from memory.
- Joshua 1:9 One of the passages Efrain says he carries on him.
- Psalm 46:10 Named by Efrain as a verse Keith had posted and one he keeps by his bed.
- 1 Corinthians 13:13 Another of the passages Efrain lists when he says he has nothing but scripture on him.
- John 3:16 Named by Efrain among the verses he carries, and the ground of Keith's explanation of grace late in the episode.
other
- The book of Job The book Efrain says he related to when he lost his job, his savings, his health and nearly his home in 2008.
- Footprints in the Sand The prayer Efrain calls "footsteps" and reaches for first when asked how God carried him through childhood.
- The Guardian Angels The volunteer subway safety patrol Efrain rode with as a teenager, whose headquarters church in Greenwich Village he slept in while homeless.
- Aviation High School, Queens The test-in New York City high school Efrain got into and names with pride, before circumstances took him out of school.
product
- Richardson 112 cap The cap style of the Still Strong hat Keith gives every guest, chosen on his kids' advice.
- Frequence Rise and Frequence Source The mushroom nootropic and trace mineral products Keith reads as this episode's two sponsor breaks.
Full transcript
Keith Vance: Welcome to the Still Strong Podcast. Here we talk about unfading strength, tested by life, forged through faith, and proven over time. Ephraim Negron, welcome to the show, brother. Thank you for having me. Ephraim, I got an introduction here for you.
Keith Vance: And I purposely don't prepare myself too much for these because I want to be able to be in the moment and have an organic conversation and let the conversation go where it's supposed to go. I just want to do a life story on you. I know a little bit of your, you know, you and I have been friends for a while, I know a little bit of your life story, but I don't know everything. So I just want to take my time and dissect it and go through it. And if there's anything there that we are resonating on, we'll stay there as long as possible. And this conversation will just go where it's meant to go. I'm going to give you this introduction, but I like to give people my own personal perspective of something that I know. And I thought about that a little bit this morning. We're both in the construction industry. I have a framing company, a steel shop, build houses and stuff. You're in construction sales. You sell lumber, doors, windows, trusses, all that good stuff. And so you and I talk pretty much on a daily basis on a work level. And what's always impressed me about you when I call you and you're, you know, when I say this, you're going to agree. Virtually every time you take my phone call.
Keith Vance: Either the conversation will start with this phrase or it'll end with this phrase. But you always say God is good. Always. God is good.
Keith Vance: And knowing a little bit about your life story. There's a reason why you say God is good. And we're going to get into that. But I tend to, when I'm Monday through Friday busting ass working, I forget about God's goodness. I think about the stuff that I got to do, the pressures on me and just the things I got to get through. But it's always been good for those conversations to reset. Why are we doing what we're doing, man? You know, why are we doing what we're doing? As Christians, we do what we do for the honor and glory of God. And he should be in our thoughts Monday through Friday. And God, you are good. So that's my own personal perspective of you. And thank you for that testimony, man. Because I think you deserve to know that. That just those God is good, those three words, man, have helped me many times. Don't thank me. Thank God. Yeah. So you're from Negron. You were born in Manhattan, New York. Yeah. Your parents migrated from Puerto Rico. So you have three children, four grandchildren. You're divorced. You've been in construction sales for 43 years. And most importantly, we just hit on it. You are a born-again Christian. Amen. So, Ephraim, everybody that comes on the show gets one of these Still Strong hats. These are Richardson 112s. If you've watched my other two podcasts, my kids said, Dad, they got to be Richardson 112 because those are the best. So only the best.
Efrain Negron: Thank you. Thank you for this. I was going to purchase a hat some time ago. But I forgot to wait for my gift anyway. There you go. You got it. So anyway, I got something here for you and you and the missus. And it's funny because I have the same book. I bought this about a couple of months ago. And I read it pretty much every day. So I started reading it again. And then this morning's devotional, I would suggest that you would read it. It says something about how you're going to react with your words. So I think this would be fitting for today. But this is for you when you need a lift me up. That's man of strength. And this is for you and your wife. A couple of months back, you said, how can you fall in love again with your wife and how to reinvent your relationship with her. And I think that's important in life in general. You know, we don't, us men don't really put the effort into reinventing themselves. So, I figured I'd buy that for you and Karen to open up daily and have a little devotional and put yourself in front of God and always reinvent yourselves daily on a daily basis. So, God bless you guys.
Keith Vance: Thank you. So, thank you for these, but also thank you because there's something that you don't know about me. Okay. Dude, I am a slow reader. I do not like to read. And so, these are perfect because look how small they are.
Efrain Negron: Yeah, they're small. They're very daily.
Keith Vance: You're telling me about them. I'm looking how thick they are. I can handle that.
Efrain Negron: Yeah, no, they're good. I mean, I have, gosh, I've been reading here recently only for the last couple of years, and it's good for the soul. You know, you get some alone time. I was never one for reading, but I found that it's spiritually, it enlightens you. This is good for men, for us to be leaders of God here on earth. And it gives us a pick-me-up when we need it, when we're down. And, you know, anytime I need a pick-me-up, I go to the book. Obviously, I should have bought the Bible, but I didn't. I didn't want to overwhelm us. But I think it's important that you give your soul in reading, quiet time, peace. It only takes a couple of minutes daily.
Keith Vance: You know, I told you we don't think too hard about this. And we're just going to talk where we're talking. So you brought me these books so we can talk about them. But when we talk about men and our responsibilities, I found that I do better. I do better when I prepare myself for the day. When something happens and I forget to have my, or something happens to mess up my schedule, my routine, and I don't have that time of devotion and, God, where do you want me to help me to be aware of the day? What am I supposed to do? I find myself reacting instead of staying the course, reacting to these things coming out of my life. And then when I am reacting, when I'm caught off guard and I'm reacting, I lose my joy. I lose my perspective. I get mad. I get upset. I lose a sense of, oh, the opportunities that are here. It becomes all about me. Why does this happen to me? You know what I mean? But when I am prepared, prepared for battle for the day, I see those things that would have upset me as opportunities. And it helps you with your mindset to bring your mindset to a higher level that nothing is by accident. Everything is ordained by God as a Christian. So I must need this. So, I mean, that's good stuff.
Efrain Negron: It's funny that you say that because, and I just started recently here for the last couple of years. I'm an early bird. I get up 2.30, 3 o'clock. I'm not, you know, I don't sleep well. I've never been. I've always had a tough time sleeping. But when I would get up years ago, hit it hard. Go at it. Go after it. Today, and I had to learn to do this. It's intentional. I had to force myself to get into this mindset or the battle of the day. Now, that first hour is for God, for me and Him to bond and to talk and, you know, to thank Him, first of all, for giving me another day. I thank Him for the gift that He's given me, the ability to solve problems, to challenge myself and see them as opportunities. I give it to Him. I walk into my day. I have to. We go through a lot of stress, whether it's work. I mean, obviously, we're in the same business. I mean, you're shifting at a moment's notice. And we got to take care of business. Yeah. And then you deal with that along with your personal life. Yeah. It really makes it a big, big cross on our shoulders. And I'm okay with that. You know, I'm good with carrying that load because people depend on me. People, whether it's, you know, friends and business associates like we do, because we're there to solve problems. We're there to find solutions. Sure. And then you go in your personal life, whether it's, you know, I fight demons every day. Or you have situations with family that you want to try and help them out with. But I always, today I find it very soothing for the soul to walk into your day, to give it to God. To meditate in His Word. Open up the Bible. I truly believe that. Open up the Bible. Pray. Praying is good. Pray first always. You know, it's worked for me. It doesn't really work for everyone. But I had to intentionally walk with God. It's like building muscle. I see you work out. It's like building. You have to intentionally do the work. And at times, you know, you feel at peace during the day.
Keith Vance: You said something that doesn't work for everyone. I can't let that phrase just slip away. Absolutely not. Because it doesn't work for everyone. Because it has to be grounded in what the truth of the Scripture is. And if it's not in the truth of the Scripture, it's a false hope. So make sure you're grounded in the true way, the true life, the true hope. And then it does work. It does work. Because it's not by man's might. It's a work of God through us. So make sure you're connected to that.
Efrain Negron: Yeah, it doesn't work for everyone. I'm just saying. You hear what's going on today. You know, and I'm like, you have to build that muscle. I wasn't always this way. I wasn't always. I'm not perfect. I had to get to this point in my life to intentionally seek God. Surrender. You have to surrender.
Keith Vance: That's good. Because you said I had to get to this point in life to where I surrender. So let's start from the beginning. Because I know it's a process. So let's just start right off the top. You were born in Manhattan, New York, right? To your, to a Puerto Rican. Your family's Puerto Rican. They migrated from Puerto Rico to New York. Do you know what brought them to New York? Let's just start from the beginning. What brought your parents to New York? When you, by just talk about when you came on the scene, what was like for you? Let's just talk about those early years. The good, the bad, what shaped you? Let's just take our time and start at the top.
Efrain Negron: Well, first of all, I'd like to say that, you know, whatever I say here today is not to offend anyone. I'm a proud American, Puerto Rican, by heritage. Our culture is not the most, you know, we take pride in our culture, but some of them, obviously the people are people, you know. But I'm not here to offend anyone. If I offend any family or friends, it's not to, it's not intentionally. I'm expressing my life and how I see it with God's. And I ask God, I prayed this morning to give me the words to help me express myself in a righteous way. Because it wasn't an easy life. So let's go back to how, when I first started opening up my eyes, let's just say, when I started really realizing about what life was. And they came here because obviously they wanted a better life. Started with, I think my aunt came down. She just recently passed away last year in March. Love her to pieces, you know. She was actually, she filled in for the mother role when my mom passed away many years ago. But it started with her when she was a young kid. And then they started all trickling in to make a better life for themselves.
Efrain Negron: And that's, all I can tell you is what I've, I can put it in pieces of what I've learned from my family. So it started with my aunt. She was, I got this information here. Within the last couple of years, she was 15. She worked as a seamstress, you know, hustled. And then they all started migrating. I didn't know too much about my, why they all started coming down. Obviously it was to make a better way. So I'm going to tell you about me. And when I started visualizing life on my end. That's good. The first, the first visions of life that I had was, I lived in the Bronx. Right across the street from the Bronx Zoo. Okay. You know, I was a baby. I must have been, I don't know, five, six years old. Just started school.
Efrain Negron: And it's, there were some good times. I remember having, I got pictures of Christmases and presents. It was, it was really a good time. But obviously there was still a lot of chaos back then. That was my family's way. When you talk. Culture? The culture. Okay, all right. There was a lot. Look, I love all my uncles and aunts. I've learned a lot from them. They were the people that after my mom passed away, and even before that, I've learned a lot from them. It wasn't always. It was never the right way. Let's just put it. I'm going to go ahead and put it out there with love. It was tough. My uncles were drug addicts. You know, they were, remember my uncle Carlos? He was always in and out of jail. Love him. He was my uncle. Family. Yeah, he was my uncle. Tony was a little crazy. He had his addictions as well. My aunt Yolanda, love her pieces. She had her addictions and her way of living. Then you got my uncle Leo, who, he was a tough guy of the family. They were all tough guys, but my uncle Leo, man, he was, he was, he was a tough cat, man. You know? Then you got my aunt, very strong. Carmen. Carmen was a, you know, she was a tough lady. Very, very intimidating. Alcoholic.
Efrain Negron: My, then you got, who am I missing? Got Tony, Carlos, Leo, Carmen, Yolanda. Who am I missing? Am I missing this 70 of them? My mom. My mom was a man. Talk about a typical hot-headed Puerto Rican man, woman. Ooh, they were, those women in my family that was tough. And then my aunt Anna, that's Anna, who just passed away here last year in March. So they were very, very tough women. They, they got that from my grandfather's side. I never got to meet my grandfather. My grandmother, alcoholic, red skin from Puerto Rico. He was red as red. And then my grandmother, and they were both alcoholics. My mother, my grandfather and my grandmother. And she was white as can be. She was from the Spaniard side of the Puerto Rican side there. But I loved them. I love my, my, my grandmother. She was, ah, God, I love my grandmother. Boy, I miss her.
Efrain Negron: Boy, I miss her. My family was what they were. But I loved them all. I loved them all. They had, you know, I took a piece of every one of them.
Efrain Negron: But I, you know, growing up, it was in the Bronx. And I, I would like to think that was like the best, one of the, uh, pretty decent areas at the time from across the street from the Bronx Zoo when I started first, um, envisioning life. And for some reason or another, we just took, I don't know why, you know, again, my, my mother was, um, my mother wasn't a saint. Let's just say. My father left me when I was two years old. So you have no memory of him? I do. I have memory. I know who my father is. Um, I know who, I don't know his favorite color. I don't, you know, I wouldn't be able to tell you. I wouldn't be able to tell you anything what his favorite food was, or I know he used to dance. I know he was a womanizer. Do you know why he left? You know, I got bits and pieces on both sides of, you know, that whole spectrum there from, from my mom. Uh, he was a womanizer. He cheated. But my mom wasn't the easiest person either. So I'm, I'm not, I'm not blaming one or the other. I think they're both at fault. And they, you know, again, they didn't have the structure. They didn't have the structure of their parents being.
Keith Vance: Got it. Understood. So you were born into chaos. You're born in the chaos, but even being born in the chaos, you still have love for your family. Absolutely. Um, hmm.
Efrain Negron: And I can, I can, you know, I can carry some, I can be mad at them, but I, I love them. I love them. Yeah. They all had their, uh, every, all seven of them had their, their different ways. They were tough. They were, they were angry. But that came from, again, my grandfather's side.
Keith Vance: Got it. All right, so let's pick up the pace and move along. Two years old, you're born in the Bronx Cross from the zoo. We've got a little picture of the reality that you're born into, the family scenario. So, let's just kind of pick through and make some progress as those early years, as we go through those early years. What was like life? I don't think it was progress.
Efrain Negron: That was the best part of, you know, what we did was, back then, I felt like we took a turn for the worse. We lived in the Bronx. We ended up moving around. But back there in the South Bronx in the 70s, I would encourage anyone to look at it. Pull it up in Google. That was some tough times. You know, it looked like worse than Vietnam. You know, I lived in rubble, close to abandoned buildings. I grew up in that. Drugs, gangs.
Keith Vance: So, help me with this. At two years old, at two to five years old, you're saying, hey, this was the best time of my life. Your dad left at two years old. So, now, why did it go worse? Was your mom trying to survive? Like, help me understand that. You said between two and five years old was the best years of my life. What? And then there's a shift, and you're talking about...
Efrain Negron: I started remembering life at about five or six. You know, before the two and five, two and five, you know, you're just still going through and you see some things, you know, very light. But I started literally opening up my eyes maybe five or five years old.
Keith Vance: I missed that part. Understood. Your dad left at two. So, at five or six is when you're having these memories. Right.
Efrain Negron: And that's when the memories started coming on. Obviously, we don't develop. Sure. You know, so, living across the street from the Bronx Zoo,
Efrain Negron: again, it was probably one of the better times as a kid remembering. Okay. And then now you're developing there a little bit. Now you're starting to see life for what it really is. So, after that whole thing, we ended up... We moved a short time to... I remember going from okay to bad. We ended up going to Brooklyn, Bedford-Stuyvesant. I was probably one of the light kids in the area. I mean, I got school pictures of me being there. I was probably, you know, out of the whole class, I was, you know, two kids. And it was my cousin. Understood. Back then. But from that time, and it was a tough neighborhood. I remember it was pretty tough. But then we ended up going to the Bronx where it was a crap hole. It was like living in hell. But to me, it was like, it was life. It was something that you're born with. You're into it. It really doesn't bother you. Today, you see it as like, oh my God. Thank you for carrying me through this.
Keith Vance: So, describe that point of your childhood to me. Catch me up. What was that like?
Efrain Negron: Oh, wow. It was tough. I mean, again, let me just retract that. It wasn't tough. It was life. It was something that we lived in. The neighborhood wasn't the best of neighborhoods. I mean, again, I would encourage anyone to look. Google it. It'll show you. When you say South Bronx in the 70s, that was the life that I lived. Buildings burning down. All the rubble around. Walking through. I remember living on 156th Street and Fox. And Fox Street. Off of Southern Boulevard. Going to the store. Walking through. Walking through the Savage Skulls. That was a gang back then in the 70s. With the fires and the cold. And it was really gruff. It was natural life for me back then. Abandoned buildings all over the place. I mean, heck. I remember playing in an abandoned building. And seeing someone. I'll never forget that smell. Someone charred up, burnt. What? On his back. What? Yeah, he was, you know, he was. I remember. Not that I remember. The Harlem Globetrotters was supposed to be at the PAL. The Police Athletic League. And I had mentioned that to my uncle. And I was punished for not, you know. Because I shouldn't have been in those buildings. Oh. You know, playing around. But that's what we did. That's what, that's what, that was life. That was our playground. When you see kids on a mattress. Making flips on a bed. That was my life. That was, that was the life I lived. That was my favorite. That was my favorite.! That You know, I was just telling my son yesterday that I was a dirt bomb because, you know, we played in rubble. And my ankles back in the day, my ankles used to be dirty. I was just telling him this story yesterday. But it was life. That was part of the life. You know, so it was tough. It was tough. I remember being in a close to an abandoned building. It was a 731 Southern Boulevard. And, man, it was cold. I mean, my mom was a single woman with four kids. Lights would go off. Apartment cold. You know, you can see the air coming out of, you know, our breath in the cold. So, but that was life back then. It was natural for some reason or another. It was just, you know, and you look at it back then and I'm blessed today that I had to go through that.
Keith Vance: So how old were you during this time? Was it between? What were your ages? Are we two?
Efrain Negron: Seven, eight years old. That's when you started going. I was going to school. It really started coming to light at that time of the Bronx. Yeah.
Efrain Negron: Yeah, that's when I started visualizing. And again, it was all natural.
Keith Vance: Yeah, it's all natural. You, there's no structure in your life. It doesn't sound like, it doesn't sound like there's any structure. You're just kind of like walking through abandoned, like just living on the streets and like no supervision. I'm guessing, I can only guess, and you can speak to this at that type of age in that environment with no supervision. I would imagine you're exposed to some depraved things.
Keith Vance: How long do you want to stay in this pocket for?
Efrain Negron: We can stay in this pocket for as long as we, and I'm, I, you know, I'm not, I'm not ashamed of what I say. Growing up as a young teenager and even a young adult, I was ashamed. Today I'm not, because that's the story. I'm the testimony. God's given me the, this story, the test to, to express myself, one, not be ashamed of what I've went through.
Keith Vance: And that's what I'm trying to get to. I want to hear that story. Like, let's. Yeah. Let's do it.
Efrain Negron: So let's see. I was molested back then. I was molested a couple of times back then. Um, if we're going to put it out, let's, you know, I'm, you know, that's, that's, that was that era. That was that time living in that building. Um, and it always happens from within. Hmm. It always happens from within. There's no one, no outsider that, um, they have, you know, they have access. So, um, heck, I was in a fire. One time staying with my grandmother over on East Tremont in the Bronx. That was that era. That was that time. Um, they used to throw dogs off the roof. They used to throw dogs off the roof. I mean, right in front of me. Poof. It's like. Whose day? I don't know who they was. I mean, that's just, that's, that was the, again, that was the culture back then. You know, it was, you would see these things and you would experience these things. And again, it was like.
Keith Vance: Life. Life. Where was the structure in your home? You don't have a dad. It sounds like your mom's just working. Like, did you have a best friend? Like who? No. Like, I'm getting a vision of just you. Like.
Efrain Negron: The culture back then. The culture back then. You're, you're a product of the environment. Okay. Cause. Could have turned out a lot worse. But you're a product of your environment. Um. My mom again was a strong woman. And you know what? I love my mom. For the short amount of time. She didn't have the structure. So I can't really. You know. Can I blame her? Yeah. Here recently. I, I probably. Here for the past couple of years. I put. A lot of blame on her. But I've forgiven her. And. She didn't have the structure. She didn't have the stability. She didn't have the stability. In. My grandparents. She didn't have the stability of. A good leader. As a husband. That was the culture back then. That was. That was life. You know. And I'll call it out. There was a lot of deadbeat Puerto Rican dads out there. That was the life. That was the dream. That was the dream. That was the dream. That was the dream.
Keith Vance: That You're talking, you're talking like big picture generalities and I'm trying to get you to go smaller. I'm trying to get you to go smaller. How like personally, like personally, your personal thing. So, um, because where you are right now in life at 60 something years old, um, you've experienced enough and you're old enough. Because I'm going to be fit by the time this airs, I'll be 50. I'm going to be 50 in a couple of days. Um, you reach a certain stage in life that you're comfortable with who you are and what you are and really don't care what people's opinion are of you. The only opinion that matters is God's opinion.
Keith Vance: And you become thankful for the things in life that shaped you into the man that you are so that you can say God is good. And I'm trying to pull that out of you in these early years.
Efrain Negron: I'll do it all over again the same way. Because I'll do it all over again the same way. No regrets.
Keith Vance: So you, I'm trying to help you navigate through this and, and I understand why, because you said you didn't have really any memories till five or six. Dude, five or six is old. It's old. Some, I would imagine that the reason why you don't, it didn't have any memories until five or six. I would imagine there's some traumatic things that happened to you that maybe your brain shut down because as you described this kind of stuff, it's no kid should live that way. Especially in the United States of America. Like that's, that's heartbreaking. Um, being molested a couple of times, you know, um, you said it always happens with an end. I'm guessing that's from a close friend or a family member.
Keith Vance: Um, you said something about your mom died early on. How old were you when your mom died?
Efrain Negron: I was 16, just about to hit my 17th birthday, two weeks before my 17th birthday. Okay. I was the oldest of four. So can you imagine what my siblings went through?
Keith Vance: All right. So your mom, um, where was she working? What was she doing?
Efrain Negron: Um, my mom was the job that I remember. She was working down in Houston street down in the, there was a lot of, um, brick and mortar type stores back then. They didn't call them back then, but it was, it was in a fashion. Um, that was a fashion location. I mean, they call it Soho now, South Houston. Um, that's the, I remember going down there a couple of times and, um, that's pretty much the extent of, I think she was, and I say that, I don't say this to, to, I think that back then she was collecting a little welfare. And having a job to supplement. Understood.
Keith Vance: Listen, you got to do what you got to do, bro. You know, it was, you know, four kids, a single mom, you do what you got to do.
Efrain Negron: You know, she had, um, four kids with three different men. Understood.
Keith Vance: You know, I'm getting a picture of what your life was.
Efrain Negron: You know, and it wasn't, there wasn't stability. I mean, she, she, for the short amount of time, you know, she was a, she was a partier, you know, she, you know, but it wasn't easy. It was, it was, um, you know, I've seen men come and go.
Keith Vance: Okay. You know, um, You're, you're, you're, what you're talking, you're helping me here get a mental picture. Yeah. Yeah.
Efrain Negron: It wasn't, you know, she was a single, that was the, again, that was the culture back then. And it's still probably still the culture back today in these days.
Keith Vance: Now, let me ask you this. You were the oldest. There's four of you and you were the oldest. She died when you were 16. Your siblings, are you in contact with them still?
Efrain Negron: I, I, I still, I, I know whether at, um, you know, we got some distance, you know, when my mom, before my mom passed away, I was the head duckling. Anywhere I went, they, they would, they were right behind me. Like, you know, a pack of ducks, you know. And, uh, since when my mom passed away, we, we split, we, we split. And it's tough for me today to, you know, to see that because we were, we were, we were close back then.
Keith Vance: Okay. So let's, let's transition this pocket. I want to talk about your mom passing. I want to talk about that transition of splitting up. And let's talk about this next little, this next little phase here. I want to take off piece by piece because I want to do justice by you and your story. Okay. So you're 16 when your mom died. What, what, what did she die from?
Efrain Negron: She died from colon cancer. Okay. Um, she died from colon cancer. And, and to, to. To. it was tough for us. It was, it was really tough for us. Again, I was the oldest. I got wind of it or someone, my cousin told me, Nydia. She told me, I remember the day that she told me where we were at, you know, and how she told me. I didn't know what the C word was back, you know, I thought it was just a, but it was tough for us. We were, again, we were poor. We were piss poor. We lived in the projects back then when I was told that. And we had to survive. Mom lived in a hospital for going on and off for quite a few years after that. You know, we were, man, we had to cook for ourselves and we had to fend for ourselves.
Keith Vance: So when she, when she passed and you put her in the ground, you and your three siblings, did you go back to the projects? Did you become like, like, I want to know what, like, how did that, you said you broke up, like, help me understand this.
Efrain Negron: Well, we split up. We were all supposed to go to my aunt's house in Jersey. God. From coming from New York City, coming from New York City, going to New Jersey was like torture, man. Back then. Why is that? Because it was just a different lifestyle. It was kind of slow. Jersey City back then was still decent, decent. Now it's, now it's becoming like everything else out there in the world. But it was, I just didn't want to go to Jersey at my aunt's house.
Keith Vance: Because, listen, I know why. I think I know why. Tell me. I think I know why. Because the thing that's, the thing that is vexing you is the same thing that's freedom. You don't have structure, but you know what, as a kid, you probably didn't want structure. So you're saying to go to New Jersey where it's slower pace and to stay with my aunt and my aunt to tell me what to do. Like, there's, you're vexed by what you live in. You're seeing all this stuff. But you know what? That's a good point. Ain't nobody telling me what to do. No, that was a good, that's a good point. Is that part of it?
Efrain Negron: Yeah, that's a good point. And you know what, quite honestly, I never thought of it that way. And you're, you're right. Because my aunt was, I love my aunt. And anything that I say, it's not to, to hurt anyone or hurt her. But she was a tough woman, you know, and she had rules and boundaries, you know. Not that my mom didn't have. But here I am, I'm a city kid or I'm a street kid or I lived one way. And to have my whole life turn immediately at a moment, it's like, wow. And you know, my family, I don't think my family had any kind of, because it was tough. I was jumping from house to house. I ended up going to my uncle's house, Leo's. I felt like I was an inconvenience or a burden to my family. Oh, man. Because, yeah, that's the way I felt. My sister did too. And so did my siblings, but they couldn't do anything. You know, we went from my uncle's house, where it was tough, to my aunt's house, where it was tough. Then we went to my, I went to my other aunt's house in Brooklyn. That's where I broke, that's where I broke. I just literally, I could have, I broke it. But it was tough. No, no, no.
Keith Vance: Listen, when you say that's where I broke, that's where we need to pause. And you need to describe that to me. Okay. I don't know what that means. What does that mean? That's where I broke.
Efrain Negron: All right. So, again, we were moving from house to house. Okay. Me and my, and when I say we, it's me and my sister. We were just shuffling around back then.
Keith Vance: You're doing a good job, and I'm getting a good mental picture. Yeah. We were just shuffling. When I see, when I see emotion come out on you, and I don't understand, like, I want to know the specific thing. So, give me that specific.
Efrain Negron: And you got to forgive me if I walk away, it's because I'm envisioning that life. Yeah.
Keith Vance: No, dude, you're doing great.
Efrain Negron: You know, I'm just envisioning that life back then. Um, you know, so forgive me if I'm looking away because I'm picturing.
Keith Vance: No, we're good.
Efrain Negron: My, my life back then.
Keith Vance: And I want to understand this thing a hundred percent. So. So, you said, you said I was at my aunt's and that's when I broke. Okay. What does that mean?
Efrain Negron: So, when my, my aunt Yolanda, she was a little bit more liberal. She was a little bit more, uh, she let me a little bit because she knew I was rebelling.
Efrain Negron: Excuse me.
Efrain Negron: I was just 17. Because remember, my mom passed away just literally two weeks. It'll be 44 years in a couple of weeks. Wow. On the 23rd of this month. So after I went from, which was tough. And I don't look, again, I don't blame my aunt or uncle. They did the best they could with how they were able to try and handle that situation. It was tough on them too. They weren't used to having a couple of extra kids in their home.
Efrain Negron: So, you know, I was rebelling because, again, I was going at my uncle's house. I was going from school from New Jersey to Queens. That one way is two, two and a half hours. Okay. For a young kid like me. So it was tough. And that's coming back. And I was in the dead of the winter. Same thing at my aunt's house. And it was more work on me.
Efrain Negron: As a kid.
Efrain Negron: As a kid. It was tough. You know. When my mom passed away. And I'm sorry to change that. And I'll come back to breaking. You know. We. Again. We had to fend for ourselves. We had to work for it. At a young age. We had to work for it. We had to cook for ourselves. We would burn hamburgers and hot dogs. My sister made the lousiest spaghettis. She was a kid. She was a kid. You know. We. You know. Tried doing laundry. You know. In one of those carts. Out in the winter. And you're taking your clothes. To the laundry mat. Because we didn't have. We lived in the projects. We didn't. We didn't have a washing dryer. And. In Manhattan. In those projects back then. So we had. Kids. My mom was in the hospital. She lived in the hospital. We had to fend for ourselves. Then my grandmother. God bless her. I love her. And I'm not. She was. She was drinking throughout that thing. I don't know. I think. I think that. The pressure. Got to her as well. You know. She's got one of her daughters. And she was already an alcoholic. Before that. So we had. We. We had to fend for ourselves. You know. We. We had to take care of ourselves.
Efrain Negron: You know. Again. This is not. This is not to hurt anyone. But. When they say. We're family. And this and that. You only got yourself. You only got yourself.
Efrain Negron: And I love my family. But. You know. Throughout that whole thing. There was a lot of. Weight. Weight that we carried. There was a lot of weight. That we carried. You know. So. Fast forward. You know. We. My mom passed away. In 82. January. Of. 82. two. Two. And. Again. I was. We were jumping from house to house. My sister would come with me. And we didn't have. It was tough. That poor girl.
Efrain Negron: So. I ended up going to Brooklyn. Brooklyn. My sister stayed in Jersey for a little bit. Ended up going to Brooklyn. My aunt back then was a little bit more liberal. But she also had a. A bad habit. And she didn't live in the best conditions. It was. Bushwick. Brooklyn. Brooklyn. And. It was. Just before the. The spring. Or summer. I. I quit school. I stopped going to school. And that's where I had my. I. I wouldn't say bad. But I had my breakout. I had my rebellious. Moment. At that time. I had. I had to just like. Let loose. Which was good at the time. Because I had to. Go through that life. Keith. You know. I met some. I met some people. Who are still Facebook friends. We're not really. Great friends today. But we still. They're Facebook friends. You know. They. I see them. We're all getting older. There were some good kids. There were some good kids at the time. They're. They're parents. Took me in. We would party hard, like a 17-year-old would. During the summers, we used to go to different beaches. We would go to nightclubs. We did drugs. We drank. Not drugs, but we did, I think back then was mescaline or acid.
Keith Vance: That sounds like drugs to me, Michael. Michael, why don't you give me a question? But no, but there, you know. Michael, hold on a minute. Michael, Google that and tell me if acid would be characterized by the drug. Oh, we did, we did. It don't sound like, hold on a minute. It don't sound like Sudafed.
Efrain Negron: Yeah, well, Sudafed, people get hooked on that to their team. So, I had to go through that. But, you know, honestly, I got caught smoking pot already at 12 years old. So, that was the culture again. That was the life. That was the environment that I was in. So, when I got to that point, I was already introduced with weed, and then it just kicked it up some more with alcohol, and then the acid phase came in. And I was just a mischievous kid. I was never, I was, I wasn't a bad kid. I was just a, I was curious, you know. And I met these kids here. And not that I needed that time in my life, but I had no supervision. I had no one to guide me. I had no one telling me, you know, good. I didn't even have my father. I knew what my father lived at. I knew what my father lived at. And again, I'll say, I'll say it with love, and I'm going to probably offend some people with this comment. He was a deadbeat dad. Let's just put it out there. You know, I'm going to put it out there. I didn't have his guidance. I didn't have, he talked a good game, but there was just never the support that, that I always went looking for him. I always went looking for him. He can never deny me that. God can, you know, God knew I was always looking for him. And my half sister, she knows I always went to look for him. But I didn't get the kind of support, the leadership, the, he didn't have God with him. We can talk about God.
Keith Vance: We're going to get there. I feel that coming on. So just.
Efrain Negron: And we'll come back to that. And I'm good with that, you know, but I went through that, that phase. My aunt got a little bit exhausted of it. I worked on, at that time I had a job and it was a full-time job. I had a lie about my age to get this full-time job. It was a messenger job in the heart of the Ryan Apple on Times Square, 42nd Street in 1982. Talk about, talk about some stuff. I mean, that was, I had, but I had to work. I mean, you've seen some, some things. Right in the heart. But back then they used to, before Giuliani cleaned it up, it was nothing but porn theaters. Really? Yeah. It was, I mean, the dirt of, you know.
Keith Vance: So you're basically, basically the way you're describing it, you're living in Sodom and Gomorrah. Oh, right in the heart of it. With no, no one to guide you.
Keith Vance: So let's make this little transition right now. So, where you are now, with Christ in your heart, looking back, even though you experienced
Keith Vance: the trauma that you experienced, the things that you saw that no kid should see, looking back, can you see how God maybe preserved you from other things? Like how it could have been much worse had God not intervened before you even knew he was there? Can we speak to that for a little while?
Efrain Negron: Footsteps. There's a prayer out there that says footsteps. There's a prayer out there that says footsteps. I had to go through it.
Efrain Negron: Romans 8.18. Romans 8.28. I had to go through it. There was a purpose.
Efrain Negron: You know, as much as, you know, the experience with my mom. I had to clean the home. Well, guess what? I got a nice clean home today. I do my own laundry.
Efrain Negron: I cook.
Efrain Negron: I'm self-preserved because of those experiences.
Efrain Negron: And there was a reason God protected me through those things. And the footsteps is, you know, you ask Jesus, why am I going through this? I see two sets of footprints on the floor, on the ground, Father, in the sand. This is when, you know, I was at an okay moment. And then I see one set, God. And that's when he was carrying me.
Keith Vance: Were you ever in prison?
Efrain Negron: No. No prison. I spent a couple of nights in jail. Hold on a minute.
Keith Vance: Were there any people in your life back then that you're running with that are in prison today or dead?
Efrain Negron: Yes. Oh, goodness.
Keith Vance: So listen, I don't want to talk about that. I just want to talk about you're running with this crowd. You're exposed to the same things. But you hear where you are in life. Every time I call you, hey, Keith, God is good. But we're talking about this. Because not everybody has that same testimony that God is good. Some people are in prison. Some people are dead and doing the same things you were doing. So can you, this just came to my memory. You told me a couple days ago there was a time where you were in the street or something. You went to go steal a lady's purse. But something said, mm-mm, and you let it go. Can you just give me some examples on how you're 60-something years old. You look back and say, I was involved in that. I wasn't thinking about God. But God delivered me from this situation. God protected me from this. Even though I was right in the middle of that fire with everyone else, I wasn't burned. Can you speak to some of those things?
Efrain Negron: Well, there's been a couple of experiences like that throughout my life. But that one with the purse incident. Again, you're part of that environment. You're part of that culture. You know, and that was the thing back then. And I was a kid. I must have been, I don't know, 15 years old maybe. And I'm not proud of it. But I'm not, I'm not, again, I wasn't a bad kid. I was just curious.
Efrain Negron: And it's funny because those guys that I used to hang out with, they're both that. Nunu and Bubbutt. That was their names.
Efrain Negron: You know, it was a thing back then. I was just, heck, I don't even think I hit, I think, I don't even think I hit high school yet. I was still in middle school. Middle school in Queens back then takes you up to the ninth grade. And I was in, I think I was in the ninth grade and smoking pot back then. Okay. And I was, I wanted to be a part of the crowd per se. But there weren't good influences. There were, there were not good influences. So I can't remember the, the, the exact story, but I remember, you know, I attempted myself to do that. I attempted to do that and the lady was older and I went running like they typically do to go snatch a purse. That's, let's go snatch a purse. And I went for the purse and I let go. I thought about my grandmother because they were probably about the same age back then. And I love my grandmother. And I tell you what, I, I lied, obviously. I mean, because the police were looking. Yeah. Um, I remember there was a big old hoopla because the police were looking. I don't know how my family got wind of it, but they were all like, they were all mad at me. They were all, you know, my family, I'm going to, I'm going to put it out there. They thought I was going to be a junkie. Uh, I was going to end up in jail. I was going to end up dead. And I've heard that a few times within my family about me.
Efrain Negron: And I say, I say it with God with me. I proved them all wrong.
Keith Vance: Okay. So let's hit another transition. Um.
Keith Vance: Mathematics is mathematics. Two plus two is going to equal four. No matter what you do, those numbers is always going to equal four. When you start adding up the equation to your life up until this point, like, you can't blame them for saying that because, hey, you start adding this stuff up, this is where it goes. You can make that prediction. Mm-hmm. Okay? You two boys that you're running with, they're dead. Okay? That's the end of that equation that you're talking about. So, what changed that equation for you? Let's talk about when did...
Efrain Negron: Can I just bring something up? Yeah. There was another one. His name was Applehead. He was worse, and I was younger. This was in the heart of Manhattan. He got killed. Doing what? I have since left that environment and moved on. We would stay in touch a little bit. Don't forget, we were still young, but my mother and his mother were still talking. He ended up getting killed because he was running with the bad crowd. That was the culture back then. Understood. You know, and he was, I mean, heck, the time that I got caught smoking pot, it was with him and a cousin of mine. Understood. So, you know, you're a product of that, and I don't blame, I'm going to come back to, I don't blame my family being upset, but they were also a part of the environment because I had uncles that were doing drugs and they were in prison.
Keith Vance: Listen, I understand. There's that thing, do what I say, don't do what I do. There's that thing that even though I'm addicted to this, you're in my blood, I don't want you doing this. I tell that to my kids all the time. So, I understand the picture you're painting. Mm-hmm. I want to talk about, had it not been for the intervention of God in your life, Jesus Christ, that equation would equal death. I would have been a part of that.
Efrain Negron: Right. I would have been a part of that. Right. I thank God every day that he saved me. There was a...
Keith Vance: And that's what I want to talk to you now. Now, when did that intervention, when did God intervene for you, when did he save you from that equal sign? I can't say that.
Efrain Negron: The best prayer that I have is the Our Father. I think it's Matthew either 6, 9 or 9, 6, one of those. The Our Father. I did my communion when I was a young kid back in Manhattan. I must have been, I don't know, 11, 12 years old, 11, 10, 11 years old, 11 years old. Back then, I was old. When you do your communion at 11 years old, you're pretty much old already. So, I remember that one prayer, that one in the Hail Mary. When my mom passed away, and I seen myself in some tough times, suicidal thoughts, drugs, nowhere to go in dark places. That one prayer saved my life.
Efrain Negron: I wasn't walking with God back then. Of course, I didn't have the spiritual. But that one prayer throughout my life saved my life. Literally.
Efrain Negron: I guess when I started saying that prayer, I think that's when it started. Because you know what they say, you know. Faith of a small mustard seed. I knew there was a being there. But for some reason or another, every time I found myself, and I was in plenty of dark places. Plenty of dark places. Plenty. You don't know how silence is the loudest sound. Silence. Quiet. Pull out your hair. But that one prayer literally saved my life. So, I can't say that I remember when. But I was always saying that prayer. Always. Always. Ever since. When, you know. When mom. And always, even when she passed away, the Father was the first prayer that I can think of, the only prayer that I knew. And when I found myself into those places, I would say that one prayer. And I would go right to sleep.
Keith Vance: How did you know that prayer?
Efrain Negron: Through communion, through catechism, through Catholic school.
Keith Vance: Oh, you went to Catholic school.
Efrain Negron: Well, no, I didn't go to Catholic school. I went to Catholic school to learn my, and I still have my first Bible, to do my communion. You know, I never got confirmed, confirmation, because again, that's, it's traditional. Or it was cultural. You know, in the Hispanic or Latin communities, you do the communion. You go to the Catholic church. You do your confessions. But that one prayer was my saving grace. That was my, that was, that's, that one prayer saved me. It saved me. You know, so, you know, again, I always had faith. And I think that was the, I didn't want to be a bad kid. I didn't want to turn out, I want to kill myself plenty of times in my life. But I wasn't a bad kid. I wasn't, I wasn't. I'm going to have to disagree with you there. What?
Keith Vance: Because biblically, we're all sinners. Biblically, we're all bad. Right? Right?
Efrain Negron: Yes. But what I'm saying is that malice.
Keith Vance: Understood. I understand that, but I just want to make sure we all understand that. I wasn't. Because you and I have had a conversation before. So I know, I know what you believe and I know what you think. I just want to, I just want to, like, clear that up. For the wages of sin is death. We're all born in the sin. But the gift of God is the eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. That free gift of salvation that we don't deserve because we are bad. And that's why we need the blood of Christ to wash us and cleanse us from our sins to make us clean because we cannot clean ourselves. And I know you believe this. I just want to make it. Yes. I just want to make it sure it's clear. Yes.
Efrain Negron: I wasn't, it wasn't, the things that I did, you know, I was mischievous or I was rebellious.
Efrain Negron: But like that one incident with the purse.
Keith Vance: You didn't want to hurt anybody.
Efrain Negron: I didn't want to hurt anybody.
Keith Vance: And I understand that. I just want to make sure we all understand.
Efrain Negron: I mean, don't get it wrong. If I have to defend myself, we're going to have a problem. But I don't, you know, as far as, I was mugged quite a few times in my life. You think I would go out and mug somebody? Right. You know, I was beat up numerous times in my life. But I wouldn't intentionally go pick a fight with somebody and jack them up.
Keith Vance: I understand. I understand that. I just want to make sure that.
Efrain Negron: You know, yeah, yeah. No, we're, look, we're all sinners. We're not perfect. I've been redeemed. I'm still not perfect. Right. I'm still not perfect. I still have a lot of improvement. I still have a lot of growing. So I appreciate you. Yeah. But I, in other words, my, you know, we talked about King David the other day. He wasn't perfect. Yet he's still in the Bible. Yet he had his, his faith with God and he committed to God and he was still a sinner. Right. You know, he's still in the Bible and we can learn a lot from Psalms.
Keith Vance: It's there for a reason.
Efrain Negron: That's right. You know, so. There for a reason.
Efrain Negron: But I, I'm not proud of a lot of things that I've done in the past, but that's not my, that's just history. That was just a story that made me who I am today.
Keith Vance: Yeah.
Keith Vance: Let's, let's take a little break. Must we? No, it's okay. Let's take a little break. And then I want to hit a next, a next stage, the next evolution.
Efrain Negron: Fair enough. All right.
Keith Vance: We're good. This part of the podcast is brought to you by Frequence. The product is Rise. These are my nootropics. Derived from a blend of seven different mushrooms. I take this for mental clarity, cognitive health, and it's also a natural pre-workout. Find the link in the bio. Now let's get back to the show. It wasn't. Crap. We should have had it on there. I can only do it right the first time. All right. Well, we're back from our break. And I want to transition off of that segment. Let's move to the next. Okay. So when did you start working? When did you get married? When did your family start? Let's just hit that next phase in life where you're dealt some hard cards. God preserved you. You made it through. Now at some point, you had to have been working. You got your first apartment. You started your life. Let's speak to that for a while.
Efrain Negron: Let's pick up where I was working when I was on Times Square. Working as a messenger, living with my aunt. And I think this was the turning point. That following winter, my aunt got tired of it. Me not being responsible. She threw me out of her place. I was homeless. I was homeless. I was homeless. Close to a month. Thank goodness for that small period of time. I don't know if you know what the Guardian Angels are in New York City. There were Curtis Lewa, who was just running for the mayor of New York. He was the president of the Guardian Angels. He was a lot younger back then, obviously. There were a safety patrol in New York City in the subways. And I was a part of that organization. It was a kit thing. It was a safety patrol. It was trying to do good. I was part of that organization. And I met some people there. And when my aunt passed away, I was literally... I stayed in the subways. I stayed in their headquarters church down in the village, Greenwich Village in New York City. I met... At that time, we had a patrol leader, Rocky Keith Pratt. We're Facebook friends today. He took me in for a short amount of time. And I tell you what. He did the best he could with what he had. It was in Brownsville, Brooklyn. Oof. That was a tough neighborhood there. And you're talking about a white guy from Hell's Kitchen, Manhattan. I stayed with him. And it was a tough area. I was sleeping on a pissy mattress. But I was grateful. I'm grateful. I don't mean... I was grateful that I went at that period. My aunt took me back at the time of February. I remember February. My uncle called me. My aunt's husband. By marriage. But he's my uncle. He was... I love my uncle. He called me that dead of the winter. And I remember my... He called my cousin first. My cousin declined. Thank goodness for that. He worked in a lumberyard in Bayonne, New Jersey. Oh, here we go. Here's where it's... All right. Let's go. Got it. He worked in a lumberyard. And I, you know... I remember as a kid going to pick him up when I was in Jersey sometimes. I got punished one time for smoking pot. My mom called me. Caught me. And for punishment, she sent me to Jersey. Man, I couldn't stand Jersey. But I remember him working in a lumberyard. And I was fascinated. It was a big, big industrial type yard. But he had called me. And he says, hey, I got a job for you. Wow. I was in Brooklyn. And it was in Bayonne. And he called me that Sunday to start Monday. And from there, again, it was two and a half hours plus from point A, from Brooklyn to Bayonne, New Jersey. You're talking about many different trains and a bus.
Keith Vance: And just tell me for a minute. You are 17, 18 right now.
Efrain Negron: I was... I had just made a... I was literally... It was two weeks after my 18th birthday.
Keith Vance: Okay. Got it. Let's keep going. All right.
Efrain Negron: It was two weeks after my 18th birthday. Called me February 22nd. I started on the 23rd. I believe it was a Monday back in 1982. Could be... Because I landed here in Florida on February 26th. Of 94. So, he called me on the 22nd, that Sunday. I started February 23rd, I believe. That was a turning point of my... That's when I started trying to be an adult. I wasn't a fully adult yet, but I was... He had called me. We did it, and I was fascinated. This Lumberyard... Man, I love me at Lumberyard.
Keith Vance: Okay, so what was your job in Lumberyard? All right, so when I first started... You started out. What are you doing?
Efrain Negron: When I first started, I started out cleaning bathrooms. Good. Yeah, no, I'm happy about that. I told my story that a couple of times people laugh. I'm like, don't care if you do. I know what...
Keith Vance: So, you're doing janitorial type things?
Efrain Negron: Right, so I started cleaning the bathrooms and the office, picking up the trash cans in the office. Yep. And from there, anytime I would finish, then they would have me go to the millwork. Okay. And the saws in the back. And this was all industrial. I mean, we used to mill our own oaks and maples and cut our, you know, cut door. I mean, it was just an industrial... That was Lumberyard. Lumberyard. That was full-blown Lumberyard. That was nothing. I mean, that supply, we had drywall. We had everything. That Lumberyard, that was the best Lumberyard I've ever worked for. Wow. So, I went from... After that, I would go into the mills and learn how to do the milling. And it was the same routine for months. Go in, clean up the restroom and the office, go into the mill shop.
Keith Vance: Okay. Pause your story for a minute. Okay.
Keith Vance: Young kids who don't know what they want to do in life. Because I had a similar opportunity that you're talking about. You got to start somewhere. So, you start at the bottom. whatever task that you're given at the bottom you do it the best of your ability but you don't focus on that task if you want to succeed you don't just focus on what my job is my job is to mop this bathroom floor clean this toilet take out the trash and walk with blinders on you open up your eyes you absorb everything that's around you like that mill that you worked in you're absorbing it you're like in awe by like wow and you're you're eating it up but you got to start somewhere right so we can just as you're talking it's resonating when we kind of know what that feels like and we can speak to maybe people that are teens 20s who don't know what they want to do with their life listen let me just tell you this you don't have to have it all figured out right now start with clean the bathroom have your hands out of your pockets ready to do whatever needs to be done because what i found out is when you're doing them and the menial tasks to sweeping the floor you'll have an opportunity where someone says hey come do this and if you're just ready hands out ready mind open eyes open even though you don't know what's going on just absorb it that's where opportunities happen because that's what happened in my life one of the when we first moved to florida we bought a house in the villas little two bedroom one bath and um we were we closed in the carport made it made the carport a uh i was 10 years old made the carport a master bedroom for my parents in a bathroom and um my grandfather and uncle uh would come and help my grandfather just he was just uh
Keith Vance: he got where he was in life because he would just outwork everybody and even in his old age it was hard to keep up with him and i remember we were working and i didn't know what was going on he's 10 11 years old and i was just around with my hands in my pockets he said hey the first thing that you need to do when you show up to work is just get your hands out of the pockets get your hands out your pockets and just have your hands ready that was good advice that was good advice just be ready i don't know what we're doing but just be ready for when someone says hey grab that two by four i get that hey grab the broom just be ready so like i said anytime you speak to something that resonates with me that may be of some value i'll speak to it but this is your story not mine so anyway no i always had good work ethics Again, when mom... Listen, obviously you had a good work ethic. If you're taking several buses two hours to freaking get to work and back... I had to eat, man. Okay. Like, you're... This is where I live, boy. Yeah. Because some people, they look for any excuse or any reason why not to, why it's too hard. I'm not one for excuses. It's only too hard because it's too hard in your brain. Like, get it done.
Efrain Negron: I'm not one for excuses. You know, I had to eat. I had to provide for my siblings at a young age. You know, they had for nothing. I worked... Again, when mom... You know...
Efrain Negron: When you're looking for food...
Efrain Negron: You know, again, there was a reason why God took mom... At an early age. You know, we had to survive. There was times I had... Even in my summer off from school... I had three jobs. I had... I worked in a butcher shop. I worked in a butcher shop. I worked... I used to get up at 2 o'clock in the morning and go to milk trucks to be a helper. Come home with 3-4 gallons of milk and... That's how we survived. For, you know, $15-20 a night. You know, I worked at the youth center downstairs. This was my summers. I really didn't have the... The... Childhood that... Normal kids would have.
Keith Vance: But... Who determines what normal is?
Efrain Negron: Right. But you know what? I had to... I... You know... I did okay. I was still athletic.
Efrain Negron: What we had was probably the best that we could have had at that time. Sure. So, I had to work. I... Again, my... For school. The beginning of school, you know... My siblings had sneakers and jeans and clothes and the books. Because I had to work. Yeah. I had to do it.
Keith Vance: So... Hold on a minute. Like, we keep going back. I'm trying to move forward. And I know that, but... Hold on. Hold on. Listen. Listen. It's okay to go back for a minute. Um... Because even that... Even what you just talked about.
Keith Vance: Um... Like, everybody has their different reasons to earn money.
Keith Vance: A kid wants... A kid's... A kid's dad is trying to... A kid's dad is trying to teach him responsibilities. So, hey... You're going to be 16 soon. Earn somebody to buy your own truck. Like... Everybody has their reasons. Um... But what you just described... I think is the best reason. Love for your siblings. Um... I experienced that... And I spoke to this a few podcasts ago. My wife and I were married at an early age. If I didn't work every day... The bills were right on my ass. The bills were right on my tail. So, if I missed a day... The bills covered me up. So, I had to stay... I had to stay pace... Ahead. And I had those kids. You know what I mean? But my work was a work of love. For my family. Like, that gave me my purpose. And... If... For people who haven't experienced that... I feel sorry for them. Because to... We all have to work. But we all don't have the same purpose. My purpose is a lot more than... You know, saving them away by a truck. You know, for... You know what I mean? Like, my purpose is... Feeding those kids. My wife. And like, I... I loved it. So, what you spoke to... Hey, I had to work. My... My siblings had closed up because of me. Man, that's a good purpose. That's a good purpose.
Efrain Negron: That's honorable. You know, we didn't have much of a childhood... Back then. We had to do what we had to do to survive. Right. You know? And... You know? Just something that... I did it out of love. I didn't... I never complained. It was just something that... Needed to be done. I was developed... Without... A father being around. I had to develop quick. You know? And... I'm proud of those moments. I'll do it all over again. Sure. You know? I would travel the same road. Sure. You know? So... Look... I say this. It's either, and I say this today. I can either sell you a nickel bag of drugs, or I can sell you a piece of two by four. I was always, I mean, I had, I stole newspapers. The Daily News, the New York Post. Go in front of the subway and sell it for half the price. To hustle. Hustling, yeah. I did whatever I had to do to put food. We were hungry kids. Yeah. We were hungry kids. There was no, and you know what? I did it willingly to put food, and I didn't care what the results were. I did it, and my kids, my siblings, sometimes they still say thank you for those days. That's good. You know, and I don't want anything in return. Heck, I gave up. My goal, I went to one of the prestigious schools in New York City. You had a test in to get into that. I wanted, like I said, I wanted, I went to Aviation High School in Queens. I say it loud and proud, you know, because that was one of the prestigious schools in New York City. You had a test in. So I was no dumb kid. I had goals. I wanted to be in the Navy.
Efrain Negron: I wanted to build, I was already at that age. I wanted to be something.
Efrain Negron: Back then, I would say, it was snuffed out of me. No. Back years ago, because I had, I felt, I felt anger. I felt like I was deprived. I felt like I was deprived. But looking at it today, it took me 60 plus years to get to the headspace that I'm in now. That was a purpose. And I would do it again. Yeah. I would do it again. You know, so, I'm proud of those moments. I really am, because that's my story. I'm the test. God put me through the test. He put me through the fire. And he gave me choice.
Keith Vance: You know, and... I say it all the time, Ephraim. There's times in my life I look back on, and I say, I do not want to do that again. But at the same time, I would never give that up. Because the lessons that you learned through it. You know what I mean? So, I can, that resonates with me. Lumberyard. Lumberyard.
Efrain Negron: Lumberyard. Man, I love me a small of a lumberyard.
Keith Vance: How did you, you started out janitorial stuff, and then when that was over, you're in the back, you know, working on the mill. How did you progress, and how quickly did you progress?
Efrain Negron: Again, I always had good work ethics. You know, I, you know, that was the best $4.15 I made an hour. I love it. I love that. You know, I mean, again, I was living with my aunt. She gave me an opportunity to live with her. And, you know, nothing comfort free. I had to put in my, you know, my little bit of, you know, whether it was $50 a week. Carrying your weight. Yeah, carrying my weight. You know, and then the other, the other, the other 50 bucks or whatever it was back then, I would, I would blow it. I would go hang out, and I would, you know, be, again, I wasn't a, I wasn't bad. I was just, you know, I wanted to be a kid. Understood. You know, I was still a young man. I was still trying to grow and still trying to figure out my way. I was, man, that was the best bunch of misfits. Lumber yard, they were, they were gruff. There were some Southern people from Georgia, black folk, black, I mean, but man, I learned the best. There was, we had a good mixture there. Young guys, old guys, very territorial, fighting.
Keith Vance: Listen, I like this because as a business owner and then just being around construction, most construction companies are in business because of people with ADHD, high school dropouts, just that, that grimy, not afraid to get their hands dirty, like just, the ones that get the work done. Yeah, we were. And I love those kind of people. Just the one who's just.
Efrain Negron: We were a bunch of misfits, man. I love it. You ever see the band of brothers in that, that, HBO by World War II and you see a bunch of guys there just, you know, grungy? That was, that was us.
Keith Vance: I had my first framing company, I sold it when I was 30. The guy that bought me was from New Jersey. Real proper, clean. You shake his hands and he got moisturizer on his hands. You know what I mean? And I was always at the shop before my guys would show up, make sure everything's ready to rock and roll. So he had to follow me. I think I had to stay with him the first 60 days or something like that, make sure the transition was good. So I said, I don't know what to tell you. You just be by my hip. Whatever I do is the recipes to success. That's all I can give you because this is just what I do.
Keith Vance: So he's like, well, what do I do tomorrow morning? I said, 5.30, where the shop? 5.30? I'm just telling you, this is what I do. That's not corporate. That's not corporate. But I was, you know what I mean? The work that gets done is the ones that get it done. So anyway, keep going.
Efrain Negron: No, no, no. And I get it. The 5.30, heck, I'm up. Like I said, I'm up at 2.30, 3 o'clock a lot of times. Yeah. Five out of seven times a week. I'm up that early. But getting back. You're at the mill. I'm at the lumber yard. And again, that was a lumber yard. And I would put that team up against anyone today. That's good stuff. I would put that team up. And we were, again, alcoholics, functional alcoholics, functional potheads. We were young. Man, we were badass. That lumber yard was pretty killer. That very first one, Bay Ridge Lumber. They're corporate. They started out in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn. And then they got their big hub over in Bayonne, New Jersey. So I started out there. I had some good training. My cousin worked there. I got all my love and training from my uncle. He was an alcoholic. Eddie. Love that man. He was, man, when he passed away, broke my heart. You know, he was the father figure that, you know, that I didn't have. All my uncles were, even though with their bad habits, their, you know, their crappy attitudes and their angry demeanors. I loved them. Just a family. That was, I learned a lot from them. You learn what you didn't want to do. Mm-hmm. With love, with love, you learn what you didn't want to be like.
Keith Vance: Got it. I'm glad you brought up that point because you got, there's always people teaching you. People teaching you the way I want to be and the people teaching you the way I don't want to be. Everybody's a teacher.
Efrain Negron: Yeah. Everybody's a teacher. And it's funny because I used to go with my Uncle Tony. We did painting jobs. I got drunk with him the first time. I must have been, I don't know, 13 years old. But we would go. We would, I mean, it was the, what beer was it? I even forgot the beer. Man. Man. But we would play cards. We would play gym money. That was Uncle Tony. We would, we did side jobs, painting jobs. Mm-hmm. Uh, my Uncle Carlos. He was the, and I'll call it straight out. He was the junkie. Mm-hmm. I say it with love. You know what I mean? Because I'm, you know what? I may not be proud of him, but you know what? He taught me what not to be. Mm-hmm. And he was a prison guy, but I used to do plumbing jobs with him. I used to do side jobs with him. You know, and then my other Uncle Leo, who was, he was, he was an alcoholic. He was, he was, he was a fighter in the family. Mm-hmm. He would blame my uncle for me smoking weed and I would defend my Uncle Carlos. I'm like, no, that wasn't Uncle Carlos. That was the culture. That was the environment that I was in. And he would get mad. I'm like, no, he didn't, it wasn't, he was in jail when I first started picking up weed. We'd, I would tell him straight out. So everyone had their things. My aunts, my aunts would say to me, what do you want to eat? And they would know what I would want to eat. They would have it already ready for me to eat. You know, like I would, I just went to go, I just went to Puerto Rico, visit my cousin. I'm the only cousin that goes to visit my cousin up there, up in the mountains in Puerto Rico. So, um, and, but when I would go up there, they would, she would make mofongo with a, with a broth of hen. And, and she already knew what I wanted. My aunt, Anna was lasagna. She already knew. My Uncle Leo was a mundongo. They already knew. No matter what their quirks were, I loved them all.
Keith Vance: They expressed their love in their own way, but they all had their hangups.
Efrain Negron: But man, they were, they were, at times they were vicious, man.
Keith Vance: I get it.
Efrain Negron: They were vicious. So getting back to the lumber yard, um, I progressed. I started, I used to, um, I was, I started out as a helper out in the yard, out in the mill. Then at times people would miss. At lunchtime, I used to go and drive, learn how to drive the forklift. Okay. On my lunchtime, I would learn. And I started progressing with that man. I was good on that forklift and I was good pulling loads to where, again, we had a bunch of misfits and my foreman, Richie Newman, old Jewish man, old college, long shirts, college shirt, brim, you know, with a nervous condition. And, you know, he would call me, you had this whistle, Ephraim, Ephraim. And at that time I was young. I just didn't know any better. I thought this man was prejudiced and working my ass off. He was just picking on me.
Efrain Negron: And years went on and I left that lumber yard after a while, but years went on. That man depended on me. Wow. He depended on me because he knew that I was going to get the job quickly, efficiently. He knew I was going to get the job. And any time that we had different divisions, we had different bays, as we call them. Somebody had the big lumber and timbers in the back. Someone had the specialty plywood. Someone had the specialty pines. The other one has the specialty drywall with all the CDXs. You know, my uncle did the doors and the insulation portion with all the hardware. Anytime there was metal studs, there was just the roofing parts of it. When anyone would miss or take vacation.
Keith Vance: You were the one. I was the guy. Okay. Don't lose your train of thought, but hit the pause button. Um, because as we're like this, all the stuff, I live this stuff and I eat it up and I feel like people can learn from this. Okay. So you said that you thought this guy was picking on you because he was working you, working your tail off. Young people hear me. If you're in a work environment and nobody's asking you to do anything, ask yourself the question. Why? Because probably you're not as valuable as what you need to be because people at the end of the day, people just need tasks to get done. And they don't want to take all day because they want to get home and do what they got to do too. So people in leadership position, they find people who can get the work done efficiently, quickly, not going to complain about it. And if you're not getting asked, I know what the hangup is and make yourself valuable. You made yourself valuable. That's why you were getting worked. And on the same time, if you, those of you that are working and you found your value,
Keith Vance: make sure in a humble, respectful way, make sure that that value is reflected on your money. Because from, as an owner of a business, I have work that needs to be done. I have people that work for me, but I'm not always thinking about, I'm thinking about my obligation. I'm not thinking about the ones that are doing the work. And sometimes if someone doesn't speak up, hey, boss, it's been a few years since I, that's terrible. Been a few years since you got a raise. Like to make people speak up is not good. So I mentally make note. I have my secretary and stuff. Hey, keep, I want to know how long has people been with us so the pay is right. Because we, as an owner, you got so much going on. You get your own pressures and that the people that don't speak up sometimes are forgotten. And sometimes it's up to you to speak up and say, hey, don't mind doing this. But do you think I can get a little bump? I got kids now. Like, don't be afraid to speak up in a respectful way. So anyway, keep going.
Efrain Negron: No, if you don't ask, the answer will always be no. It's in the Bible. If you don't, you know, if you don't seek, if you don't knock.
Keith Vance: And it may not be that the leadership isn't, it could just be leadership isn't noticing because they're preoccupied with their responsibilities. So anyway, keep going.
Efrain Negron: Yeah. So again, that man, he worked me. Good. He worked me and he worked me hard. But you know what? Anytime that they needed a little overtime, it was me. Good. Anytime that he knew that he can depend on me. You know, I, man, I'm grateful for that man. Good. I'm grateful, you know, because, and everybody would call me his pet, you know. So what?
Keith Vance: Who cares if they can?
Efrain Negron: I don't care about that. I'm just saying, I'm just making because.
Keith Vance: Because here's the other thing, Efren. When things slow down, recessions happen, like these, there's times of feast and there's time of famine, feast and famine. When it's famine, you don't want to be the one that's cut loose when we're cutting back to 40 hours or whatever. You want to be the man that's, that they, this company needs me. So you put yourself. No matter what it is, even if it's clean, the toys, whatever, be the best one, the one that they call. Another life lesson. Yeah, well, again. Don't be the one that's on the list to get cut home or not.
Efrain Negron: And I don't want to move fast forward, but in the time of the recession, the market crash back in 07, 08, 09, I had seven jobs one year in the time of recession. That was a depression. That wasn't a recession. Yeah, it was. That was a depression. But those who want to work, they're going to find work. They're going to do whatever they need to do to survive, to eat. If you want to eat, now you can go ahead and make excuses, lay back, do nothing, you know. But I'm not one for excuses. And I always tell that to my kids. Sometimes a couple of them are upset with me, but I'm not one for excuses. I'm not here to coder you. Because if I go one day, you're going to say, man, dad was right. But it's that simple. I'm not, you know, you got to survive. You can't, you don't want to leave. Because, I mean, I'm living proof. I didn't have somebody to tell me, you know, to advise me, to guide me, to lead me. I didn't figure it out, you know. And that's why I tell my kids. And they're breaking chains. They're breaking the chains. But I don't believe in excuses. I believe you roll up your sleeves. My kid called me. He was, when he first started out in the Navy. He was on one of the most prestigious ships, aircraft carrier, the Enterprise.
Efrain Negron: Man, I'm a proud father. But he called me one time, whining, bitch, and crying, moaning.
Efrain Negron: I didn't sign up for this. They got me cleaning the bathrooms. I'm like, so you clean it to your best of their ability. You make sure you put bread on that thing and you're able to eat it. Don't call me crying. You're not entitled to nothing.
Keith Vance: He called the wrong person. Oh, no. Actually, he called the right person.
Efrain Negron: He called the right person. Because you know what? I'm not hearing it. Yeah, there you go. You decided to go to the Navy. And I hear I'm putting responsibility or blaming myself. Because at that time, I was having some hard times, financial times. And he came home one day, and I was proud of him. He made an initiative. And he was going nowhere fast. So he came home one day. He said, Dad, I just joined the Navy. I'm proud of you. But then I told him, guess what, son? I'm not your daddy anymore. They're your daddy.
Keith Vance: That's true, isn't it? Yeah.
Efrain Negron: So I remember calling him. And I was having some bad times. I was having some tough times. But we're going to come back to the lumber yard. Because I love me a lumber yard, man.
Keith Vance: Let's clean up that lumber yard and move on.
Efrain Negron: So again, I had some good six years of my first lumber yard. I progressed to the second lumber yard, where it was a little bit more clean, a little bit more established, a little bit more professional, a little higher end. Went to Dykes Lumber over in Weehark in New Jersey. Got a lot of good experience there, a lot of different moldings. It was a different market.
Keith Vance: I understand.
Efrain Negron: The first lumber yard was gruff construction, high rises. That was Reaganomics. Yeah. You know, we were booming some stuff, man. We were killing it. And again, I would put that lumber yard against anyone. So then the second lumber yard was a little bit more, not finesse, I want to say, more the remodel, higher end stuff. You know, if you look at these New York City areas, we dealt with a lot of custom high-end moldings and doors and stuff like that. So that took me to the next level. Worked the counter, did customer service. Everything was customer service in its different ways. But, you know, I was able to learn a lot from the counter.
Keith Vance: How old are you in this?
Efrain Negron: I want to say, if I started at the lumber yard at 18, worked there, I was 24, did that lumber yard until I was 30. Okay. And the second one. Then that's where my life took a turn. Another turn. Another turn. You know, I was a young father, young husband. How did you meet your wife? I met her through a friend. She had a child. Your stepdaughter. Right. Okay. Met her in 19, actually I met her in the summer of 83. Our first date was August 14th of 83. She had, we went to the Bronx Zoo.
Keith Vance: Met her, we got. Hold on a minute, you said you went to the Bronx Zoo? To the Bronx Zoo. Did you point to the house that you used to live in?
Efrain Negron: Actually, I couldn't. I said, I told her I lived in this here area. And I remember. I remember vividly the building, and I did point at it, but again, I was a kid. Man, my mom beat my tail back then. The beatings I used to get, I'm sorry to turn it because something came up that hit me at the Bronx Zoo era. I was a kid. Again, I was mysterious, and I would put these TP cards. You know how you've got playing cards? I would put them on the bed and set them on fire. Wow. Again, I was like maybe five, six years old. I was just in kindergarten. But when my mom beat my tail, that's abuse today. That's child abuse today. Again, I say it with love. I'm not saying it, but I probably needed those beatings back then.
Keith Vance: Hey, listen, listen. Can you blame her? You set the freaking bed off her. Can you blame her? What's she supposed to do? Give you some candy?
Efrain Negron: She supposed to give you a piece of candy? Come on, man. I was out of school a week. We had a play, and I was at the Bronx Zoo era. I'm sorry to go back to that one, but that was something that just hit me. I'm like, well, wait a minute. I remember getting my tail beaten at that time. Coming back to her name is Sonia, by the way. I was blessed to meet her. I went through that. Again, I learned to love her. I had to grow to love her.
Efrain Negron: I needed that family structure back then. Again, I don't say this to hurt anyone. I wasn't in love with her back then. Okay? I needed the family structure to help me keep me out of trouble or help me establish myself or build a foundation. You know, our first home.
Keith Vance: How long were you guys married for?
Efrain Negron: We were, we were, we were, we were, for the first, now, there's a story, and I'll tell you, going back to where the life changes. So, we were together until we met in 83. We were together until 92. We got married. We got married. We established a family. Had two more kids after that.
Efrain Negron: Life was tough. Our first home was a, wow, it was in Bayonne, New Jersey, all the way downtown Bayonne. And it was an old town back then. It was a shoe store. And the house, the floors, it was a wooden home. I mean, the floors were very crooked. I mean, the house looked, it was lopsided. It was really, but it was our home. It was our first home. It was our first home. It was our first place that we rented together. And it was an ugly home, but it was home. Yeah. You know, I mean, it wasn't like the rest of the neighborhood. We were probably the only Puerto Ricans on that family. I mean, on that block. You know, back then it was still predominantly white, you know, but it was our home. And it was, it was a, it was a really, I'll call it, it was a, it was a dump. It was, but it was our home. You know, we made the best of it. Colds in the winter. It was really cold in the winter now because it wasn't insulated. It was, gosh, I'm, I'm, that home was old, man. If I can pull it up, that would be great. But I met her. We made a life out of it. We weren't perfect as a young, as a young couple, as a young, we got married. Had a family. It was tough. There was times that, heck, I was working two, three jobs to try and maintain, but I was a proud father, you know. And so just like any young family, they're going to put you through the fire. They're going to put you to the test. Now, I am fully responsible for my actions. We weren't, we weren't the best couple. I mean, I was still probably drinking and partying and I was womanizing. Not something that I'm proud of, but I'm going to go ahead. The only way to be, God says, you know, you got to, um, what are you, maybe you know this. Um, like when you get baptized, you have to have witnesses to repent, to, to ask for forgiveness. So I'm, I'm putting it out there because again, I'm not, I'm not perfect at that time. I'm not proud of it. But again, God puts you through the fire and you have choices. So I've done my things. I was a young man. Amen. I still had an eye for women back then. And I got caught.
Efrain Negron: She was married. I was married. And I got caught. And I'm not putting it to... It's not her fault. It was all my doing. Because I had choice. But again, you become a product of your environment. And that's what was done back then. I'm not blaming anyone but myself. So I got caught. That's where my life shifted. Again. And I'm not going to say for the better. But at that time, I wanted to commit suicide. I didn't think I was going to see my kids anymore. She picked up and left to come down to Florida.
Keith Vance: Can I just say while you're taking a breath...
Keith Vance: God is sovereign over everything. So just keep that in mind. God is sovereign. It says even our sin... God can use our sin for His glory. Like... And God is the only one that can do that. But having said that... There's a... There's a way that He allows... And still... Takes our sin and transitions it for His glory. But there's also His... A perfect way. A better way. Let me just say... You know, I got five daughters.
Keith Vance: We got two boys and five daughters. And one of my daughters is married to my son-in-law right here.
Keith Vance: Um...
Keith Vance: Um... Uh... We dod... We... We dodged a bullet. One of my daughters is seeing this guy. You know, when you go looking... In a garbage can... You're going to find garbage. And I don't... I'm not ashamed to say it. I'm not... I'm not... She... She found garbage. We came within days... For... This to be... In my family. Days.
Keith Vance: Um... And I'm trying to figure out what our... What our family life is going to be like now. Um... Because as... Possibly my future son-in-law... I gotta have a relationship with this... Person... That... I don't... Want to be around... Like his whole lifestyle... The whole... All of it... I don't... None of it... Resonates with me.
Keith Vance: But... Uh... God was good and gracious... And he was unable to hold it together... And... Went out and binging... For a few days... And she's home... And... The epiphany went off in her own mind... God's goodness to her... Is this what I want... For the rest of my life? And we dodged a bullet... But she invested... Two and a half years in this relationship... That in one way... Is just a waste of time... Like she's going nowhere... She's spending her money... Feeding this guy... You know... Taking care of him... Being his... Being his mama... And... You know... So financially... She's not getting anywhere... Like... Spiritually not getting anywhere... So... You said... I had to go through that... To get to where I'm at... My daughter had to go through that... To experience that... But it would have been better... Would have been better... If when she brought him around... Said... Dad, what do you think? Took Dad's advice... Nobody loves her the way I love her... Nobody wants what's best for their kids... To put some weight... I want all my kids to be with somebody... You know... You want all your kids to be with the right one... And live a life... That you have... Like I found the right one... I want all my kids to have what I have... Amen... Um... So... Heaven said that... Everybody wants to be with somebody... But make sure... Kids... You know... We seem to be talking to young adults now... Just because... Your best friend found somebody... And you feel like you gotta... Maybe... It's not happening for you... Make... Make... Maybe you just gotta... Hey... Make a decision... Like... Everybody else is doing... I need to make sure I have a relationship... No you... Don't. Because it might not be better. It could be worse. But God does. If we seek him, God has good gifts for us in his time. And to be patient and be grateful. And when that right person comes along, to live a life with that person for the rest of your life. I have that with my wife. I have that with my wife. So what you were just talking about, it seems to be the form of the day. Yeah. Little lessons for people who are in that stage of life. Make sure you find the right person. It sucks being lonely, but it's better being lonely.
Efrain Negron: It's a little bit too. I don't want to say it's. Look, God, everything is in God's timing. And I was blessed to have her in my life. Because it matured me. It taught me a lot of things. I wasn't perfect. Neither was she. You know, but I'm not. It's not about her. It's about me. I'm accountable for what I've done. I'm not going to speak for her and what I experienced with her. It's about me then and today.
Keith Vance: Yeah, you made the wrong choice.
Efrain Negron: Yeah, it was my. It was my. I could have done things a lot because I hurt my kids.
Keith Vance: Listen, you married her. You're committed to her. Put the blinders on. Keep your eyes on your wife. You follow me? I'm talking to men. If you're married to someone, that's your person. So you talk about the woman. You're absolutely wrong. Mm-hmm. And I take full account. Yeah, and I know you did. Mm-hmm. But there's a right way. And then there's these windy trails that we choose. And those windy trails create chaos and confusion and heartache and heartbreak. And God can still take those to where you can get a phone call and say, hey, God is good.
Efrain Negron: You know, throughout the years, I had to learn, and I'm still forgiving myself. I'm still learning. I know God's forgiven me. I know I've seeked him for forgiveness. I mean, I was baptized and, you know, Jesus had, I forgive you. You know, forgive him, Father, for they don't know what they do. You know, and I've been redeemed. I'm having a hard time, even throughout the years, forgiving myself. I want to be that better person. I want to follow God's, you know, I'm giving it to God. Jesus gave his life for me, and now the Holy Spirit is guiding me and telling, you know, this is the way you should go. You know, I'm not proud of those moments. I'm confessing in front of people who I am and how God made me to this point. Right. You know, and that's all I can go on.
Keith Vance: And I'm just following your lead, and then I'll just hit the pause button on your story and just interject some things. That's where we're going. Yeah, yeah.
Efrain Negron: So I was blessed to know my kids. She gave me two beautiful kids and a stepdaughter. You know, they are who they are. Sometimes they have to learn throughout lives. But, man, I can't ask. My kids are good. They've never been in jail. They don't do drugs. You know what I mean? They, you know, they're good, respectable kids. Sometimes I call them stupid, but they have to learn themselves. There's only so much that I can go ahead and tell them. It's up to them whether you want to go ahead and take the water to the horse, but you can't make it drink.
Keith Vance: Yeah. So you cheated on your wife. She moves to Florida. Your life has taken another transition. You contemplated suicide. So let's...
Efrain Negron: That was a tough part of my life. That was a really tough part of my life. That was really tough. Again, I knew the effect that it was going to take on my kids. She came down to Florida. And I, you know, because of the trauma that I went before that with my mom and dying at an early age and, you know, not having parents or the guidance, it was driving me up a wall. And again, that Our Father prayer was the one that was helping me. And there was a lot of times where, you know, I ended up with the one girl who was married that obviously is no longer in my life. That was one of the worst decisions there. Because then you start thinking, well, if we did it to one another, you know, what makes me think, you know, that's not going to happen again. You know what I mean? You start getting through those things, but it was not a good... It was just not healthy. It was just not a healthy relationship. It just didn't work. So that was a total waste. So it used to go. So it used to go.
Efrain Negron: It was just a total waste. But again, I had to go through that fire. I had to go through it. There's no question about it. If that's what I chose, because God gives us choice, Adam and Eve. God gives us choice. It's up to you what you want to do with it. So, she came down with the kids. I couldn't be without them. So, I came down back in 94. February of 94, I came down to Florida. I ended up in, she ended up in Tamarack over in Sunrise over in Fort Lauderdale area. I moved to Tamarack. Got into a lumberyard over there. I was making close to $18 an hour up there. Came down for $7 an hour. Started all over again. Started all over again.
Keith Vance: Best move of my life. So, I don't want to get you off a rabbit trail. I want you to stay right there mentally. But two things came to mind. Your wife moved down with the kids. You couldn't be without your kids. Such a difference between you and your dad. You looked for your dad. Your dad didn't look for you.
Efrain Negron: I looked for my kids.
Keith Vance: You went after your kids. Good for you, dad. My son-in-law, he's sitting right here. He got a similar story. We got a granddaughter through marriage with my daughter marrying him. A perfect gift to our family.
Keith Vance: But I, my daughter got my son-in-law because he had a daughter with someone else and she moved down here with her daughter and he couldn't be away from his daughter. He made big changes in life. Big changes in life. Be with a daughter. And I'm experiencing the fruit of that transition and just, man. So you can say God is good, can't you? Always. Yeah. So, resume.
Efrain Negron: So, I came down here
Efrain Negron: because I missed my kids. I wanted to be my kids. I didn't want to do what my father did. I wanted to be better than that even though I was, I hold my head down in shame.
Keith Vance: That you messed it up.
Efrain Negron: That I messed it up.
Keith Vance: You messed it up. But it ain't over yet. Well. So you moved all the way down from the top of the United States.
Efrain Negron: And she, she had remarried after so, so long. She remarried. We were, you know, she remarried. I don't blame her. Again, I don't blame her.
Keith Vance: But I want to be close to the kids. So, $18 an hour to $7 an hour.
Efrain Negron: To $7 an hour. $7.15 an hour. I started down here at the Myron Building Products over in Pompano Beach. Dark side of town. Proud of it. You know, again, it was a, I, I, I hope, I gained from them and I know that they gained from me because I had the experience. I had the ambition. I had, you know, the fortitude to, I mean, I was, talk about a dump yard. Oh my goodness. That was, that was the worst lumber yard I've ever worked for. Grimy. But you know what? I cleaned it up. Oh, good. I cleaned it up. I put some, you know, I cleaned it up. I couldn't, I wasn't that guy.
Keith Vance: You brought value to it.
Efrain Negron: I, I wasn't that guy. I rearranged the, the, the whole, uh, culture of that lumber yard. I mean, it's no longer in existence, but, uh, it was just a dump in Pompano. They had one down in, uh, northern Miami somewhere, Hollindale. And, I cleaned it up. I was, you know, one, the people in the office, they were, they were white. The foreman, who was hardly in existence, you know, he was just Mike Plotkin. Good guy. But he was, he was, he was a case. But I was one of the grunt guys. I was the only light skin, grunt guy in the yard. You know, they related. I was one of them. I grew up around a lot of black people. So I, I can relate to them and how they, they, they think. And, or, heck, there was one time I was working the counter. Some guy called me Cracker. Now that's a, that's a racist term for me. That is. Down here, they make it seem like it's okay. But that's, that to me doesn't work, you know. And I'm like, I came out, I'm like, bro, who's calling Cracker? I said, I'm probably more black than you, man. I'm more southern than you. You don't even know. You know, I'm like, whatever, bro, don't call me Cracker. That's not right. Don't, don't do that. You know, so, um, but I, I, Had a good couple of years there until, again, the life shifts. Life shifts again. But, you know, I got to hang out with those guys. I got to know them. They were really sad when I left because I made an impact. I made, you know, I mean, you know, we're going to turn this culture around in this Lumbyard. This is not, it was a dump, man. I mean, when you see chicken bones and it was just a, I'm going to say it, a shithole. You know, but I cleaned the culture. I cleaned it up. I left after so many. And I'll tell you why I left. How I ended up here in Fort Myers. Okay, good. I was there two years. So I left there to find another job for another buck an hour. I worked down to a distributor down in Miami, which was, it was one of the worst jobs I've ever done. You know, I was better off in the Pompano yard than I am over at the distributor. But anyway, the reason why I left. Sony got remarried. And my kids would tell me that, you know, when I would have the kids, they would tell me that the guy was hitting them. Yeah. Yeah. So, so this is what happened. I was still young. I was still a Northern kid. I had that, I had that attitude. You got it. Yeah. Wait. Yeah. The first time he was warned. Yeah. The second time, because it, you know, they would tell me and I wasn't going to go for a third time. So what happened was, um, they lived in sunrise in an apartment complex over in sunrise. I was single. I still, I just, not that I didn't have a regard for life back then. I, you know, and sorry to revert it, but back then I didn't have anything to lose because I had no electricity. I had a nice apartment. No, I had no cable. My electricity, I was barely paying my electricity. I mean, I was barely living. I was just barely living.
Keith Vance: You know, I was, you know, it was like. You're good at that. You're good at barely living. That's all you've really known. Yeah. You're good at it. That's where you thrive. It sounds like.
Efrain Negron: So when I hear that Chrissy, my daughter, she comes with a scar on her neck.
Efrain Negron: And I asked, I'm like, what happened? Oh, Carlos. That's all she needed to say. He grabbed me. I'm like, that was it. I got. Hold on a minute. How old is she? She was just a baby. She must have been eight, ten years old, if that.
Keith Vance: And so this other guy. Are you telling me you grabbed her by the throat?
Efrain Negron: That's what she told me. Okay. Now, up to this day, I'm still kind of. Because then you hear different.
Keith Vance: So when do I keep going?
Efrain Negron: Because my son, Eric, who works for me now. Who you know. Yeah. He told me that Carlos had spanked him. And I even, I went up to the cat. I'm like, I'm going to tell you something, bro. I'm going to go to jail. But you ever touch. I never touch my kids. I told him, I said, I'm going to spend life in jail. But the next time you touch my kids.
Efrain Negron: Not in so many words, but I'll take you out. Because I never touch my kids. And I'll be damned if somebody else was going to go ahead and touch them. So what happens? What happens? The guy, I had the guy, the guy was trembling. It was just, he knew I wasn't. But I'm trying to restrain myself. Thank goodness I did. So the second time I see Chrissy with the mark on her neck. And she had told me. I made a beeline straight to, it was her grandmother's house. And her mother was there, Sonia, my ex-wife. And I'm ready. I got baseball bat. I was going to go Joe, you know. I was going to go Willie Mays on this guy. I was going to go Babe Ruth. You know, they call the cops.
Keith Vance: They call the cops.
Efrain Negron: They call the cops.
Keith Vance: Because they knew you were coming.
Efrain Negron: They call the cops. No, that was already there raising hell. I was already raising hell. They call the cops. Cops came. And I'm like, you know. Thank goodness that I didn't end up in jail that night. All right. I didn't end up in jail that night. So here I am. I'm hearing conflicting. I'm like, I don't, you know. I'm going to believe my daughter. I'm going to go ahead. No, this happened. Somebody's going to, you know, so what happens? Within a couple of days of that, there was a job opportunity here in Fault Meyers. Hmm, okay.
Efrain Negron: And didn't pay much. Again, you know, I got nothing to lose. Didn't pay much. And I said to myself, before I end up in jail, I got to go.
Keith Vance: I got to fight this another way. I understand. So you, I understand now. So you created a little bit of distance.
Efrain Negron: I had to.
Keith Vance: Got it. Because the next time you get a phone call, if he's right down the road, you're going to blast somebody. So now you got to drive across the other coast to give you some time to cool. Like, I get it. I'm a street kid. I understand.
Efrain Negron: You know, my mother, when I was a kid, I was bullied in the Bronx where those times come. My mother said, always head first. Ask questions later. There was, there was a time that I was bullied and my mom said, it's either you beat his ass or I'm going to beat your ass.
Keith Vance: Got it. It was, there was just no. So you moved to this coast to create a little bit of distance between you and. A couple hours away. There you go.
Efrain Negron: You know, I moved here in New Year's Eve. Just far enough, but not too close. Yeah. Where you don't do something stupid. I had to distance myself. Got it. As much as I didn't. Why? I'm like, I got to put this in. And as much as I, I got to put it in God's hands back then without me knowing that I was putting it in God's hands. I had to separate myself. Understood. You know, so. Again. There's always a reason. Another best move of my life. When I came from over there from Fort Lauderdale to Fort Myers.
Keith Vance: This is another transition.
Efrain Negron: Oh yeah. From Fort Myers. Another transition in my life.
Keith Vance: And you said that was a good move for you?
Efrain Negron: Of course. Every, you know what? Whether. If it ends up. If it starts off bad. The end result. Or the result of that is always going to turn out good. Romans 8.18.
Keith Vance: Let's talk about that during this transition. This last transition here.
Efrain Negron: So the last transition. Well. There's still other transitions in between. But what happens is, is that I came over here. I started a job. I was a foreman out for a new lumber company out here. Stewart.
Keith Vance: I remember Stewart Lumber.
Efrain Negron: I opened them up. I remember them. Over at the work drive. So I opened them up. Stayed with them two years. And by then my ex-wife. Which I wouldn't recommend to anyone. If you break up with anyone. Don't go back. After a couple of years. I was over here. Me and the ex-wife at the time started talking. And we got back together. And my saying is. I did it more for the kids. Because I needed to finish my job. As a father. Again. I was blessed to know her. But if it doesn't work out the first time. What makes you think it's going to work out the second time. And we tried. I was longer. I was with her longer. We were. We were part five and a half. Close to six years. And we were part five. So we tried it again. You sacrifice your happiness for the sake of others.
Efrain Negron: I gave myself. So I can finish the job with the kids. But at the end. The kids end up leaving anyway. Whether good or bad. So when the economy hit. We went back together. Worked out. Got a home. Our first home. You know. Was able to continue to mature and grow. It was some good times in between all that. And then. It hit again.
Keith Vance: The economy crashed. Alright. So. Just so everybody understands what's going on. Because now I know where we're at. 2008. 2008. The biggest. Construction economy crash. We've ever experienced. So the whole subprime loan thing was going on. Right. Everybody could get a loan for a house. That they couldn't afford. If you couldn't afford the closing costs. You could just roll it into your mortgage. They were telling like. Somebody's making 15 bucks an hour. The loan officer said. Say. Tell me you're making 25. So. That's not sustainable. But we were all making money in construction at the time. Because anybody. Everybody was getting a house. So we're all making money. So what happens when you're making money? You're spending money. You're. Mm-hmm. Doing stuff that we were all doing. Right. So then when it. We just thought it was like the rest of them. We just thought, oh, it's just a few more months. It's going to work itself out. So people are keeping employees on instead of going to do jobs. They're, hey, guys, come to the shop. Let's clean the shop this week. Let's wash the trucks. Thinking it's going to turn around. And that thing just did not turn around. It was long and hard. Oh, goodness. You kept talking about winters, cold winters. That was a long, cold winter, wasn't it? So that was the first one I had ever experienced. Because I was young. And I was always of the mindset, if you work hard, work will always be there. This was different. I'm ready to rock and roll and go to work. But there's just nothing going on. That was my first learning experience with an economy recession that was bigger than you are and that you can't. I want to, but there's nothing going on.
Efrain Negron: We were in ground zero here.
Keith Vance: My first, yeah, we were. We were in ground zero here. So to catch our way up, that's where we're at. So here we are. So you got your family together with your wife. Hey, this was probably a good opportunity. And then 2008 happened. And did it get better for you or worse?
Efrain Negron: No, it got worse. Again, another turn. You know, there was a few turns there, you know, throughout life. So 2007, 2008 comes around. I left, I was working. I worked, I started, I opened up Stewart, went to Causeway. I was ready to bust at the seams at Causeway. That's when Raymond came knocking. You know, Charlie Babb was there. It was a great opportunity. Raymond was a good company to work for back then. It took me two years because, you know, I was an aggressive guy. Not everybody likes that aggressiveness in me. I wasn't aggressive. I'm pushing product. I, no, I'm not hearing it. No, it's not in my vocabulary. I got to go. So spend eight years there at Raymond. The economy crashed. I left Raymond to go with, with G&L Shell back then. I'm sure you heard of that name. And, or John Reynolds used to work with. I remember John Reynolds when he first started there. Now he's the president of a, of a Shell company. So, um, I left, I left Raymond to go with the Shell company. And, you know, I mean, it was just bad. It was, there was no sales. There was nothing being done. So I was like, go, I was unemployed for eight, 10 months.
Keith Vance: Okay. So during that eight, 10 months, what was family life like? Ooh.
Efrain Negron: Uh, well, we were just about being empty nesters. Eric was just, uh, going into the Navy. Uh, I went, you know, man, they had each and every one of them times were good. Um, I've never been so legit as far as license, paying for insurances. Cause when you're growing up as a young man, you kind of let something slip. You know, you don't pay a car insurance. Uh, you got outstanding tickets. Now you're have a suspended license. So, you know, I got my life together, paid all the bills outstanding. I was doing great.
Keith Vance: You, you were born into a life of chaos. Oh, chaos was around you. You're talking about parking tickets and not taking care of them. Then it escalates, becomes more chaotic. You're just now at a point where you're getting some stability. And then the biggest chaos happened in our life that 2008. Well, at least you and me. So you, I understand what you're saying about, Hey, I was squared away. Everything's everything locked away. We're supposed to be so legit. I'm legit. Like this, this is what my life's like now. And then boom. Okay. So finish.
Efrain Negron: You know, like you just mentioned the prime mortgages and stuff like that. Here's a man working to establish his life so he can move forward to provide for his, you know, family and leave a little nest egg. It was all that was snuffed out. You know, that was taken from what I was trying to establish growing. Cause the goal was to, to, to retire at 57. Well, that didn't happen. And I went through a couple of recessions, you know, you went to after the Reaganomics, the Reagan boom, you went to a small one, but again, I didn't have anything. I had none to lose. Then you go through the nine 11 one. There was a small one again. You know, that was devastating for me. Cause I still had a lot of family and friends up there at that time. You had a small one, but it was a small blip. Florida was, Florida was solid. You know what I mean? We went through, but when the seven and eight came through. That was devastating. You know, I had, I was fortunate, and again, you go through it, and I'm blessed that I went through it.
Keith Vance: So, you're eight to ten months unemployed. Yep. You're nesting that he had rolling.
Efrain Negron: It was gone because I took out my, I depleted my 401k trying to sustain everything that I had, finance, you know, assets.
Keith Vance: So, you're, that ten months, you're bled dry like a lot of other people around here.
Efrain Negron: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. I can see how, man, come, go ahead. And get to the edge and jump.
Keith Vance: Your relationship with your wife the second time, during this time, did it get stronger? No. Did you guys pull in together and say, hey, baby, let's make it through? What happened with that?
Efrain Negron: I try to do the best that I can. I can say I made the effort to hold her hand and say, we got to work through this. And I'm not, again, I'm always, I'm always going to put the responsibility on me, even though I feel like on this situation, it wasn't. And, but she took a turn for the worse. And I'm not going to say her personal life, but I know that there were some things that I didn't agree with. I've seen a shift. And she decided to leave.
Efrain Negron: She left when I didn't have a job. I was, I got hit with a diabetic shock. I was losing weight. I thought I was going to literally, I thought that was my last days. I didn't know how I was going to pay for my mortgage. I didn't have any food in the refrigerator. I related to the book of Job back then and studying or not studying, but understanding the story of Job. It was tough. I didn't know.
Keith Vance: I didn't, I just didn't know. Let me ask you a question. At this stage in life, even if it's, if it didn't happen to say no, and it never happened. But at this stage in life, how old are you right at, at 2008? When this happened, how old are you now?
Efrain Negron: You're 40. I'll be 60. I'm 60. I'm, or I'll be 40. Yeah. I was 40 and change.
Keith Vance: All right. So you're at 40. You should be hitting your stride at 40. You should be, man. I'm like, you've worked long enough. You figured it out. Like you're, you're, you just hit your stride should be. Um, but now this happened and now it's almost like you're back in the rubble again in the Bronx. It's almost like, just listen to your story. It seems like there's something pulling you back into.
Keith Vance: Did you, during this 2008 time, this last time, did you feel, did you ever feel like, what am I doing wrong? Like what, what in the world?
Efrain Negron: Like, I wanted to give up, man. I wanted, I wanted to do, I wanted just like, I can't do this.
Keith Vance: What's the, did you feel like, like, what's the point? Yeah. Like here I am struggling. Yeah. I'm trying to do, and then just something keeps pulling me back. Like what, what in the world? Like, cause listen, you talk and listen to your story go like this. I'm feeling that. Like I'm, my emotion is going up and down with you. Cause I would feel that way. Like I would just feel like giving up. What's the point? I'm working the hardest I've ever worked for. What? Just to lose it all over again.
Efrain Negron: You know, again, there's a, there's this, and I told you, there's a, there's a quote by Winston Churchill. If you're going through hell, keep going.
Keith Vance: But hold on. You say that now, but at this point in your life, you don't feel like keeping going.
Efrain Negron: Oh dude, I want to do myself in. I want it. That's why multiple times in my life, the hard thoughts of suicide of just, just taking it. The hard thoughts. And yeah. What's the purpose? What's. And at then I didn't, I didn't, I wasn't, I still wasn't walking with God. I wasn't walking with Jesus. I wasn't, I wasn't fully submerged into that thought pattern. I wasn't there. I would pray. I would pray. I would pray the, our father again, that, that one prayer, the small mustard seed that was there. It was always solid with me, but I wasn't fully submerged.
Keith Vance: Okay. So I want to be real careful and I want to be, I don't want you to speak in generalities. I want to be real specific, real careful where we go here. You're at the lowest you've been. You've built up, you've built up your, the biggest nest egg you've had. Like you've, you've, you've made it like this is the highest you've made it at this point. You've had these things where I've made it here. And, but every time it seems like you're going higher. So here you're at your highest. And then now you just experienced your lowest. You said you're contemplating, like, what am I doing? Just ending it. I want to be real careful here. Don't jump around. Stay right here. you quoted Winston Churchill. So what was it, what was it that happened that kept you from ending your life or to, hey, what was the light at the end of the tunnel for you? Was there a light at the end of the tunnel or was it just like, kind of like in scripture, God talks about faith as a candlestick and all you see is the next step ahead of you. I don't want to speak for you, but this is real important here. This last transition here. What happened? What was the turnaround?
Efrain Negron: I had to survive. It's as simple as that.
Keith Vance: It goes back to survival for you. Everything for you, everything for you just goes back to survival.
Efrain Negron: And it just happened to me the last 10 years again. You know, I don't want to go last. We're not going. I got it.
Keith Vance: I want to stay right here.
Efrain Negron: It had to do with.
Efrain Negron: I just couldn't give up. You can't quit.
Keith Vance: That's what's, that's what's been etched in you. That survival instinct. Ever since I was a kid. That's what it is.
Efrain Negron: Ever since I was a kid. God knows my heart.
Efrain Negron: I wasn't going to give up. That's not what God wants. And it's, and it's easy. Take an easy way out.
Keith Vance: Listen, listen, man, it's beautiful. Cause it is easy to quit. It's easy. You can quit. You like quitting is just a thought away. Quitting is just a moment away. A second. It's just a quitting is just, it's always right there. You know, it's always right there.
Efrain Negron: Quitting, you know, nobody's going to come and save you. No one, not just siblings. No one. And that's why I say silence is the loudest noise anybody can hear. That quiet when you're in the dark or you're in the cold. And you're watching the same movie over and over. You know, I was going through that. There's, there's one movie. But that, that one song by the Allman brothers. That's an awesome song. And I've lived that life multiple times of being in the dark or, you know, the loudest noise. You're just panicking, man. There was times I was just pulling out my air, you know, and, and just.
Keith Vance: So stay with me. I don't want to talk about all the times. I want to talk about this last time. Stay in the pocket of this last time.
Efrain Negron: No, there's been other times after that, but we'll take it to that point.
Keith Vance: I know that I'm talking about where we're at right now. This conversation, this last time. So you're at your lowest. And instinct kicks in. I got to survive. I got it. So what helped walk me through that transition where instinct keeps in, where instinct kicks in, survival instinct kicks in. What was that, that pulled you through?
Keith Vance: Perseverance. Perseverance. You got it tattooed on your wrist. You know, so practically, what did it look like? What were the steps? What were the steps? One, you do one step at a time. And that's what I want to get at.
Efrain Negron: You do one, one step at a time, you know, let, you know, if I, my house was under foreclosure. Um, I lost it all. Um, heck, I even, I even, I got upset with my brother.
Efrain Negron: Cause he seen the condition I was. And I was losing weight fast. I mean, I was, I was 250 pounds. Heath, I was big. I was a big boy. Hold on a minute.
Keith Vance: Were you a big boy? Muscular wise? You're getting the camera. Cause you eating donuts. Cause you don't care.
Efrain Negron: Well in sales, and I'm not making an excuse. Cause again, I'm accountable for my own life, my health, my, my wellbeing. So in sales, you're constantly chasing that money. Yes. I'm smoking. I'm drinking. I'm not eating during the day. I'm gorging myself at night. I'm not exercising. Yeah. So I wasn't taking care of myself.
Keith Vance: And that what you're talking about goes with that stressful lifestyle. Right. It goes with that stressful lifestyle. I'm not.
Efrain Negron: So my, I was literally from 200. I was 156.
Keith Vance: Oh, wow. So your stress is, stress is.
Efrain Negron: I was 156. I, I'm again, I didn't know what I didn't know. I, I just, I, I thought I was going to lose my life. Right. So my brother comes, he lived around the corner from me. And he got upset with me, but I got upset with him because he comes over and he's giving me this pity pat on my face. I'll never forget that. And I'm like, get that F off of me. Don't you feel sorry for me? If you want to bring a plate of food, fine. But don't you ever feel sorry for me? I'm not having that. Don't have pity for me. Help me, but don't have pity for me. I'm not accepting that. He took it a little hard, but I had to stand up. I had to go. I had to figure out, all right, let's go. I mean, I would get up and grind early in the morning, do whatever I needed to do.
Keith Vance: Okay, but that's what I'm trying to get at. What was that? Do whatever I need to do. What? Well, first I had to get... Did you mow your neighbor's yard? Did you wash the car? No.
Efrain Negron: Okay, so I wasn't working back then. Again, things happen for a reason. Tibbetts was just opening up over at Lehigh. Yeah. Okay. I had to do seven jobs. I sold coffee. There's a coffee roaster in Cape Coral. I did jobs. I worked for Casey Building Supply for a little bit with Roger when they owned it and Eileen. I worked over at a window where they're ABS now for nothing, to just try and make a sale, to just try and make a sale. So I had literally seven jobs in one year until Tibbetts. Cora, I don't know if you know that name. Cora Gilbert. She's no longer with us on this earth. Never met her. Never met her. And she owned Fort Myers Lumber and Cape Lumber. She bought the lumber yard from the Dickey brothers. And I was a competitor. My name was getting out there. Heck, Suncoast didn't want to hire me. Lenny Moore, he didn't want to hire me.
Keith Vance: Hey, don't talk about Lenny too bad because he's going to be on the podcast next month. No, he's a good guy. I'm just saying that. I'm flying him down from Mississippi next month.
Efrain Negron: Is he? I thought he was back, but we'll come back to that. But Lenny Moore is a good guy. He's a good dude. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, I think he didn't have a position for me.
Keith Vance: No, he didn't want to hire you because everybody was cutting back. Like everybody was experiencing that.
Efrain Negron: Yeah, and I knew that. But, I mean, heck, I would have cleaned up bathrooms if he would have given me an opportunity. I would have been his top sales rep right now.
Keith Vance: Yeah, we're going to save this clip because we're going to pay this clip when Lenny comes down. And we're going to get Lenny's perspective up.
Efrain Negron: I went there to talk to Lenny, you know. I mean, give me a job. Let's go. Let's go set it up on fire, you know. But, anyway.
Keith Vance: Stay focused, man.
Efrain Negron: Yeah, so, anyway.
Efrain Negron: Tibbetts was the opportunity that got me into the game again. Into this industry that I love. I love me a lumberyard, man. Mm-hmm. So, they gave me an opportunity. I was with them. For a couple of three years first, I went with a builder who went under, Southern Premier Homes.
Keith Vance: I remember them. A lot of them went under. Yeah.
Efrain Negron: Well, I mean, he was coming out of, he was like at the, not the tail end of the recession. But, anyway, that's another story. That's.
Keith Vance: Hey, I'm not going to get off on rabbit trails because you're doing good enough for both of us. Okay. But I am going to say this one thing. Just so you know, that recession was all my fault. I knew it was going to happen. I predicted it. So, that's why I sold my company three years before. Good for you. Because I knew the recession was coming. Good for you. And I intentionally, like the guy that bought me out, I did it intentionally against him. No, you didn't do that intentionally. Listen, that's the story. That's the story. He said, he's like, Keith knew this was coming. That's why he sold his company.
Efrain Negron: You know, God blessed you. You know, G&L did the same thing. They were cornering the market in their industry. And they sold just at the right time. So, nobody predicted this. No one predicted. It just happened. But anyway, I got back in the game in the industry that I love with Tibbetts. Got into the sales. Starving. But, you know, again, you got to grind it out. You got to do what you do best. You got to get up early. And it's true. Early bird catches a worm. You're up at, you know, 1, 2 o'clock in the morning. I got to get the grind. You know, I got to go. I got to go ahead. I got an estimate to do. I got to price this out. Who can I call? What's going on? Let me look at the permits. Yeah. Meanwhile, trying to figure out how I'm going to go ahead and get my next mortgage payment. How am I going to get, you know, to get the insurance? Things like that. How am I going to put food in my refrigerator? How am I going to pay for the bills? While my house was under foreclosure. So, things happen.
Efrain Negron: Again, you invest in people. You invest in the opposite sex, which we're not going to get into that conversation, but I had someone that it didn't work out. Again, you give yourself. Yourself. I'm a giver. I'm a caretaker. Because I gave. I know how to give. But people do abuse it. People take you for granted. People don't. And the hiccup today is people don't submit to one another anymore. And the older we get, the harder it gets.
Keith Vance: So, here's my take on that. Because I'm, I don't like talking about myself.
Keith Vance: But I am generous. I do give. If I see needs, and I feel like it's God wants me to give, I don't care what the amount is. Because, like, I try to be an open hand. I try to be like a funnel. You know, the money, like whatever is, whatever God, whatever God gives to me comes to the top of the funnel. And I try to make sure the bottom of that funnel is not too tight, that pennies aren't coming out when I try to be.
Keith Vance: But when you, when you see what you've been given, and you are to be a stewardship of what you've been given, I'm not wealthy, but I, I'm doing pretty good. But, um, that's a responsibility. The responsibility to divert that out with however God sees fit. So, God works two ways. He creates needs. And He creates givers who see the need. And He works on both sides. I've been in need. And God supplied that need through another person. And it makes God look big. God, thank you that you know me, that you see me. Thank you that you care for me. But then I've also been on the other side to see needs that were I could see through supernatural eyes because I have a tendency just to see my own little needs. And to, for someone, for a human being to be able to look out and see the needs of someone else and for the dual work in the heart, I want to help. I want to be a part of that. That's a good feeling too. Um, but having said that, there are people who could take advantage of people like that. And I'm blind to it. I'm blind to it. So I have, I take the I take the stand that if if I feel like God wants me to do something, I'm going to do it. And if I'm taking advantage of, that's up to God. So be it. I'm going to let it go. Um, because you could drive yourself crazy. You know what I mean? You could drive yourself crazy. And when you come to the conclusion that what we have is not our own, it's all God's and we're just a part of it. That makes, it's liberating. It's liberating. Maybe somebody took advantage of me. Maybe they didn't. It's not mine anyway. That's not going to stop who I am.
Efrain Negron: I'm going to still continue to give. I'm still going to be loyal to people. Even if you don't want to be loyal to me. And if you hurt me in my, that's your loss, not mine. You know, if you want to, if you want to, you know, because there are people in, you know, there are wolves in sheep's clothing out here, you know, and I'm a loyal person. I'm, I'm a very giving person. I, I'll, I'm, I'm a caretaker. I was, I had, you know, not that I had to, but that's in, that's in my, that's me. That's me.
Keith Vance: You're, listen, you're taking care of your siblings when you were a kid. It's ingrained in you.
Efrain Negron: I was taking care of my mother, my grandmother, my, you know, and I've always said, and it's sad because again, when, when let's just say, and I'm not blaming her. God bless her. I, I seen her just in the, when my granddaughter graduated from high school, my ex-wife. I seen her condition. I, you know, and I'm not, again, I'm not talking bad about her. I'm 61. I'll be 61 soon. I think I look okay for my age. When I looked at her, I'm like, I literally had to go to the truck and pray for her. You know, I gave like, oh my goodness. I'm not talking bad about it. I'm just saying, you know. And then when I when I thought that in my worst time that we were going to work through it, the one person that you depended on walked away. And I always said, because I had to clean my mom.
Efrain Negron: I had to take care of my mom. And the person that's there at the end of the day is wiping your ass.
Efrain Negron: And that's the one that you need to be with.
Keith Vance: That's good. That's good. And thank you for sharing that.
Efrain Negron: You know, because it's hard. It's hard to. Life today, you know, it's hard to find a good partner. A good, not even a companion. You want to get a companion? I just got a baby terrier, Boston terrier. His name is Buddy. That's my part, you know. That's my companion, you know. But to find a partner? I'm not perfect. But I know I'm a good catch. Because I'm a man of God. And I have patience. I have perseverance. I have understanding. I have wisdom. I'm a giver. I'm a provider. I'm a leader. But to find a good person. You know, the word that comes out all the time is when you question something. Oh, you're insecure. Or you're, you know. You're jealous. No. Tell me the story. What's going on? That's the hiccup these days. Today's. And you just. And the older you get. Really, it gets hard. You know what? I find peace today. I love my quietness. I love that quietness. Remember I saw it. That quiet is the loudest noise.
Keith Vance: Now you're absorbed in it. Ooh. That's good.
Efrain Negron: I can't have enough of it now. That's good. I cannot have enough of it now.
Keith Vance: Let me speak to something here. We're going to. Michael. This is going to be a two part. This is going long. But I don't want to stop because it's good. So we're going to make this a two parter. We need to take a break. I got to hit the bathroom. We're going to take a break. Comes with age. I drink a whole freaking. It does, doesn't it? It does. Because I drink a whole cup. I drink a whole pot of coffee. Running right through me, bro. It was running through me 30 minutes ago. I'm thinking, man, come on, bladder. Stay strong. Still Strong, bladder.
Keith Vance: But you're longing for a life, partner. I can sense it. You're longing. But Ephraim, listening to your story, someone who's carried you through before you even know it was Jesus Christ. Amen. All the way. And then, speaking of your quiet time, you brought me these books, these devotional books that have ministered to you. So it sounds like Christ has been your companion. All the time. And possibly, who knows? Possibly if you had that wife and that relationship that we all long for, it could have possibly detracted from this. Maybe this relationship wouldn't be the relationship that is now if you had that companion that was taking that time. I'm just... No, and you're right. It's just an observation. Absolutely right. It's just an observation listening to you talk.
Efrain Negron: Again, you know... And there's so much more. Why don't we take that break? Because, again, there's a reason why God took my mom. Then I was trying to find that structure, family structure, because I lost it. I never had it. Then you try to find that companion. But, you know, you always try and find that you want. And that's why I'm so happy for you. I see your pictures on social media and how you're surrounded by your family. And you're such a proud man, a proud father, a proud leader. You know, and you're... And you got a beautiful wife that supports you. And she's your rock. And... Man, you're golden, bro. And I admire you for those... That achievement that you did. And I'm proud of you, you know? Because not everyone...
Efrain Negron: People desire for that. But it takes two.
Keith Vance: I appreciate the kind words. But you used the word achievement. Hold on. That's not an achievement. That's a gift of God. Amen. I don't... I don't deserve any of it.
Efrain Negron: I'm not very eloquently spoken because I wasn't taught the words, but it's not...
Keith Vance: I'm not reprimanded or anything. Right, no, no, no, I get it. I just want to make sure, because an achievement is something that you set a goal and you achieve that goal. The life that I have is a gift that I do not deserve, but I'm thankful for it. The life that you have is a whole different path than the one I had, brother. But, we're having this conversation, and even though our paths look differently, hey, God's still good. Always. God's good, man. Always, you know, I mean... Gratitude, brother. Gratitude.
Efrain Negron: I got nothing but scripture on me. I know. I got nothing but scripture on me. So, why don't we take that break? Let's take a break. I got, you know, old man got to take care of his business.
Keith Vance: Let's take a break and we'll get back at it. Thank you. This part of the podcast is brought to you by Frequence. The product is Source. These are my trace minerals. It's no big secret that the American diet isn't what it used to be. Our food is not nutrient-dense. This helps close the gap for me. Find the link in the bio, and let's get back to the show. What's that? What's that green thing on there?
Efrain Negron: Oh, that's... I use this for stress. I use it for driving, because sometimes I'm catching myself. I'm on a computer a lot, and I use it for the computer, too. Yeah. What happens is, is that you get carpal tunnel. Oh, yeah. And even while you're driving, so I use this to put a little... It's like a little stress ball. Got it. You know, so I use that just to squeeze.
Keith Vance: All right, Ephraim, we're back from break number two. And listen, this is only my third podcast, but you're going to get the trophy for the longest one. Am I? Well, that's... You're going to get the trophy for the longest one, boy.
Efrain Negron: I always try and leave an impression. You know what I mean? That's my goal. Whether it's good or bad, I always try and leave an impression. So... All right. But I appreciate you having me, man. You know, this is all good stuff, and we learn and we grow, and I hope you learn as much from me as I learned from you there, Keith.
Keith Vance: Thank you for that. But kind of the...
Keith Vance: I don't want to get in... I don't want to get into how we came about to do this. It's a long story in itself, and we've already got, you know, one long story we don't need to.
Keith Vance: But I was impressed that... And I've said this before on the podcast. We come from dust. We're going to go back to dust. In the meantime, we have this thing through life, and man, what a life story you have. And to be able to share that, and to just keep it to ourself, and, oh, I don't want anybody to know this because it might put me in the light that I don't want people to know about, I think is selfish. But when God gives us the ability to be... bring us to a certain stage in life where I'm an open book, and I can share the ugliness in my life and the goodness in my life to help someone else, I think it's honorable. I think it's God-honoring. We all... we're all living a life under the sun. We're all making our way. And, um... I think it, uh... How do I say it? It can be relatable. It can take the edge off. When you hear a story like yours, say, man, I'm not the only one. If Ephraim made it through, I can do it. And maybe pick up some of those tools that you learned to put in my toolbox. So when this happens, I can glean from those. So... Who knows what God's going to do with this podcast. Maybe it doesn't go anywhere. Maybe it doesn't do anything. But I... I don't think so. I think this is a space that's needed. And, uh... Thankful for you being transparent and to be able to share it. I knew some things about you, but I didn't know what you've been talking about. So... Appreciate you.
Efrain Negron: No. Thank you for having me. And if I can be an influence to one individual in this world, that can, you know, multiply down the road. You know, life is tough. Your testimony. I... That's why God... That's why it's a testament. It's a test. God will... You know, I'm a... You know, I'm still not developed as a diamond yet.
Keith Vance: So, um... I have these thoughts. Like when you... Like I said, I come in here unprepared on purpose because when I have a thought, I don't want my notes to interfere with the thoughts that might be... That God might be dropping in on me. So as you just said, hey, life is tough. I just had a thought. Life is tough, but you have a smile on your face. You have the joy of Christ in your heart. You... You could have, and maybe there's times in life where we were for moments, but we pull out of that. You could have been into despair. Like, there's people that could go on through what you've gone through and be bitter. Be bitter against humanity. Be bitter against, you know what? I wonder how many people out there hate God. Because God, if you're good, why is this happening to me? But that's not your testimony. At least it is not right now. I don't know if you went through some of those times where God, where are you at?
Efrain Negron: Well, I was mad at him. I'm not saying that I, you know, it was, there was a time that I was upset.
Keith Vance: Okay, so I want to talk about just that. The joy that you have right now. When from these human eyes, from these human ears, this doesn't sound like a positive or joyful. A joyful story. If someone was trying to write the own story of their life, their own fairy tale. That don't sound like a fairy tale that I would want to write. You understand how I'm saying that? But we have these lives and God is writing our story out. The story that you have is a tragedy. But it's, there's something there that's precious.
Keith Vance: And that's why we're here talking. If you were, if you, in these decisions in life, if you would have taken the, a wrong, a bitter turn. And you did take some wrong turns. Cheating on your wife was a wrong turn, brother. Oh, absolutely. Wrong turn. But, you guys seem to be pulling you back to him. If you were a bitter person, you wouldn't be talking right now. I wouldn't, you know, we, you, for one, you wouldn't even want to be here. So, let's speak to that a little bit. Where you are, your gratitude. Your, um, peace that you have. Where you are. Like, and you even said, hey, I was mad at God for a while. Can we just talk about that for a minute?
Efrain Negron: I wasn't mad at God for a while. I was just in that moment, you know, that I questioned. But just like any relationship with a son and a father in flesh. My son gets mad at me. And it's okay for him to be mad at me. It's okay for him to question me. It's okay. You know, we're not always going to agree. You know. But at the end of the day, he knows that I want best for him. At the end of the day, he knows that I have more wisdom than him. I have more experience.
Efrain Negron: No different than...
Keith Vance: He wants the best for me.
Efrain Negron: My father. The only father that I've known.
Keith Vance: That's good, dude. That was good.
Efrain Negron: You know. You have to understand that. Me. I have to understand. Not anyone else. That.
Efrain Negron: Sometimes you have to break.
Efrain Negron: In order for you to submit. And... The best part of my life is that I was... That... I... I was baptized. It was... One of the best feelings of my... My entire life. And... Until you get to that point. Until you're on your hands and knees. You're never going to know the feeling. Until you actually... Scrape your knees hard. And really hard. And I... And love is intentional. I love God. I love my father. I'm blessed. He's blessed me. And you know why? It could be worse. Because I can still be... That kid taking care of his mom. Homeless. You know. Trying to find food. Trying to... You know. I'm blessed. He's blessed me.
Keith Vance: You said you love your father. Scripture says we love him. Because why? Because he first loved us. That's right. He set his affection on us. By sending his one and only son. Sent his one and only son. To pay the penalty for sin. That we can't do on our own. And through him. We have a relationship with him. So. What a demonstration of love. So. As a Christian. Hearing your story. How could you be bitter against someone. Who demonstrated their love against us. When we weren't seeking him.
Efrain Negron: He gave me tough love man.
Keith Vance: He sought after us. He sought after us. We all have stories of hardship, story of refinement, going through the fire. Mine's not as intense as yours, but it's through... I found out in my life, the times that I've grown the most, the times that I've been refined the most, is going through the trials and the hardship, not when things are going great. When things are going great, there's something in me that doesn't think about God, that doesn't need... Can I say it? That doesn't need God, because everything's going good for me right now. But at this stage of life that I'm at now, and having gone through hardships and trials, even when things are good, I'm still thankful. Like, I don't need... I don't need the bad... You don't stop. I don't need the bad to run to God, and you know what I mean? Like, I'm both on both sides, and that's... I don't know when I had that experience. I don't know when I had that experience, but as of late, I think about God often, in my heart.
Keith Vance: I can... Rarely can I make it a day without having an overwhelming sense of gratitude and thankfulness. It's a great feeling, isn't it? And it doesn't take a hardship. It doesn't take a hardship now. Before, it would take a hardship to... Oh, God. Oh, man. Oh, man. Now it's just like all the time. And like I said, when this podcast airs, I'll be 50. I'm going to be 50 in a couple days. But I think this stage of life that I'm at, being 50 plus, is going to be marked by gratitude and thankfulness. You know, there's these different... When you're young, you just... God gives you that youthful energy and strength just to hustle and make a mark, right? And God gives you that. But once you've done that for a while, and there's these different transitions, and God gives you children and grandchildren, and he just slows you down a little bit and causes you to be able to look around and be thankful for the home you have, the wife who's stuck by you, the kids that God bless you with, the grandkids, you know, all of this. And then you... Why? I don't deserve any of this. I don't deserve it. So... I get it. Anyway.
Efrain Negron: I totally get it. No, and it's okay. And thank you for sharing those thoughts because that's... You know, again, men don't share thoughts like that. We lost our way. And I've never lost my way. You know, whether I was raised for a short time with my mom, you know, I was still surrounded by strong... They weren't the best influence, but I never lost my way of being a man. I had to learn. I had to learn the rough way without a father. And I don't say that to hurt him up in heaven. I acknowledge him. Heck, I got a tree planted in my backyard that has his name. You know what I mean? So... There were reasons why we had to go through that fire, you know, and I'm still going through fire, but I can see it's smoldering. You know what I mean? Because I'm coming to the... We have... We... We... And I think you're more grateful because our time is shorter moving forward than what we experienced backwards. We can only use that as a gauge moving forward and what... What we learned from and what not to do, again, obviously. So that's why I think we're... One, we're grateful because we acknowledge the power of our Father, our Lord and Savior, and the Holy Spirit. We acknowledge that. Because when you think good, you feel good, good things start happening. You... You... You manifest it. And I tell people, try God. Trust me. He works. And when I got to that mindset, good things happen. Well, bad things... Well, setbacks happen. Absolutely. But it's how you... You... You approach it. You know, so... I'm... Man, I'm blessed. I got nothing but scripture on me. You know, I have Joshua 1.9. I have Corinthians 13.13. I have... I have... John 3.16. Man, I love Ezekiel 36.26. You know, Psalm 46.10, you posted that. You know, I have that open my bed. That's how it used to go. That's how it used to go. That used to go. You know, I have a lot. You know, I'm grateful because of the word. You know, there's no telling how spiritually rich I would have been if I would have done this 30 years ago. There's no telling. Half my life. You know, it's amazing how God works. But you have to do your part. Because if you don't do your part, I'll be in jail. I'll be a junkie. You know, whatever. I'll be homeless. And I can see how easy that turn can be. That's the easy part. The hard part is you got to make the effort. Because if you don't make the effort, it's like asking your dad. Hey, dad, I need a couple bucks. Well, what are you going to give me? What are you going to do for me? Why don't you go work for it? No different than me. If I work for it and I reach to him and I show him that I'm making my part very good ways and giving him and submit, he's going to return it tenfold. Look at me. You see my home? Now going back into the 70s. I'm rich. That wasn't all me. I just did my part. All he did was he hooked me up. I got to do my part. Because if we don't do our part. And again, you got to find that right person. Your partner. Because that's important. Not that I can't do it on my own. But that partner is going to take you to that point.
Keith Vance: Two things. And you're right. You're talking about partner. Two things. It's I listened to a study that a husband and wife that are aligned and then a husband and wife that work together. The potential for success is exponential. It's exponential. So, you can do it by yourself and you'll get there. It's harder if you have a partner that's not on the same page with you. It's going to take you longer. But if you guys are a team, it's exponential. And it's a proven study.
Efrain Negron: I've never experienced it.
Keith Vance: I have. I have. I have. Listen. I've been. My wife. From the. I worked for a guy in construction. He went bankrupt. I just built my house. He got two babies in there. He gave me a. I went a month without getting paid. Because. He was having financial problems. He was. I was loyal to him. Because he was loyal to me. I was loyal to him until the bitter end. Until I couldn't be loyal. But because I had an obligation to be loyal to him. My wife's like, Keith, you need to go somewhere else. Like, no. He stuck it out with me. I'm going to stick it out with him. And I did until the end. And when a month without getting paid. He writes me a check. For that month. It bounced. My mortgage payment. It had a black mark on me. And. So, I was forced to. Go out on my own. So, I just started a little handyman business. You know, just driving around. And God would give me jobs or whatever. And my wife would have our computer set up at the bar. The kitchen bar. And she learned QuickBooks. And putting in, you know, those checks in there. I remember the first job I did. We was for a thousand bucks. And we were like, a thousand dollars. You know what I mean? It was just. A lot of money back then. But dude, she was with me. She was for me. Could you imagine if she told me, you're never going to make it. You need to settle down. You need to do it like everybody else does. You need to go get a job. You know, be responsible. But she stuck it out there, dude. She stuck it out there. And like, I had no fear. I know I'm going to do this. And I think part of my resilience was that she had my back. She was supporting me. If she would have said, hey, get a job at Walmart. You can't do this. I wouldn't have made it. I wouldn't have made it. So, it's what you said is right.
Efrain Negron: Well, you know, again, you know, it's good to have. Again, I'm proud of you, man. I'm proud of your family nucleus. And I'm happy that you have your foundation there. I've never experienced it the way you did. God bless you. And my thriving, my motivating, my, was when my family said I wasn't going to be, you know, I wasn't. I was either going to end up a junkie or in jail or dead or, you know, I have a cousin who's deceased now.
Efrain Negron: You never kick a person when they're down.
Efrain Negron: That's not what God wants. I got a cousin who's deceased now. And, you know, there was a lot of turmoil in the family because of that. You know, I separated myself. I forgive him. But, you know, he ended up being a junkie and in jail. And now he's deceased of an overdose. He was like a brother to me. I loved him.
Efrain Negron: You know, hurricane, I forgot which hurricane it was. It was just before the crash back here. I was at Raymond. We were loading up trucks. We were getting ready for a hurricane. He called me. And he was in despair.
Efrain Negron: And I said, Mikey, did you use? Because I had family that took him out of the house where he was staying at. He says, yeah, I did a little bit. I'm like, bro, what do you want me to tell you? That you're better off dead or in jail? That was the last words I told him. I'm like, get in your vehicle. Get in your car. Get over here. Never showed up. Disappeared. Disappeared. And there's another story behind that. Because it's funny. Because on that same note, I had a cousin of mine. Her son got into a big car accident in Miami. Ended up in critical condition in Miami Hospital out there. Miami U. So, I was supposed to meet my brother. She was from Puerto Rico. Meet my brother to go see him. So, I can go ahead and pay my respects. Because I heard he was bad. He ended up dying, too. The same year. So, I'm at a corner. I'm pissed off at my brother. He was supposed to meet me. I'm at a corner in this building waiting for my brother. It took three, four hours before I decided to come back to Fort Myers. Actually, I lived in Cape Coral. I built a house in Cape Coral at the time. A couple of days later, I get a call from my brother. They found Mikey. He's at the city morgue. I'm standing at the city morgue days before waiting for my brother, who I was pissed off at, to go see my cousin. Wow. I'm at the corner right there. I didn't even know it was a city morgue. Wow. And I'm right there. Wow. And before that, I was asking, where's Mikey? Where's Mikey? And my last words to him was, what do you want me to do? You're giving him the satisfaction. Get in the car. And the last words I said, what do you want me to tell you? Because he was in jail. He was a junkie. He was a drug addict. I'm like, what do you want me to tell you? And those were the last words. And I regret saying those words to him. Yeah. You know, so you never want to kick a person. And I wasn't kicking him. I was giving him tough love. That's what my thought. But you never want to say those words to someone. But you don't want to coddle him either.
Keith Vance: Yeah. It takes wisdom to deal with that.
Efrain Negron: You know, and I didn't have that capacity of the wisdom back then. But, you know, thinking back then, I would have probably handled it a lot different. But again, there was chaos. It was nothing but chaos and family things. And it was just, you know, and I, again, I don't want to point fingers because I've forgiven them. My family wasn't the most tactful. And that's where I came from. Sometimes I'm not the most tactful person as far as giving out words. Words hurt. Sure.
Keith Vance: I told you there was two things that you had said. One was about finding the right person. I spoke to that. The other thing that you said was, and you're talking about in your relationship with God, you know, God has his part. And then we have our part. And talking about, God, am I, I'm doing this for you.
Keith Vance: I believe we do have our part. But I believe that when it comes to our salvation, we don't have any part. It's all him. Like the work on the cross was 100% him. If he said, hey, I'm going to come down to you 99%, you just got to do the 1%, we are unable to reach that 1%. We can't. After we accept Christ at the foot of the cross, where we just lay it all down and say, God, here's my mess. I've tried to make something of my life here. I can't do it. I just have a mess. I'm going to give it to you. Will you give me your righteousness? And when his, when his righteousness. This is bestowed upon us. When he gives us a new heart, we love him. Why? Because he first loved us. We didn't have the capacity to love him. We only loved ourselves. At the cross, when we experience his love, he takes that heart of stone and replaces it with a heart of flesh. Boom, boom, boom. Those good works that you're talking about are good works, not out of his approval, but out of love. He doesn't need anything I have. He owns it all. But it is right for us to take God. He refers to us as broken vessels. He refers to us as broken vessels. But somehow he uses these broken vessels and it's offered up to him as incense and it says it smells good to him. He finds favor. He finds favor in the work that we do. But our work, again, I know you know this, but I just want to make sure. Our work is not an approval for him. Our work has not anything to do with us getting to heaven. Our work for him is out of that love for him. We can never pay him back. There's never enough thank yous. We can never pay him back, but it's just, God, this is all I have. I know you don't need it, but it's yours. And it's always been yours. And it's that mindset that you spoke of.
Efrain Negron: And it's funny, I smile because you mentioned, you know, he's going to take the heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And that's Ezekiel 36, 26. He's giving you a heart. He's taking out the old and putting in the new. Yeah. You know, and that's, there's only other, in order for you to be happy in life, first seek your happiness. You got it. You got to work on you. You know how they tell you when the plane is crashing and, you know, put the mask on you first. Then you take care of your child there. Because if you don't do you first, you're not going to be able to help anyone else.
Keith Vance: It goes back to what we talked about earlier, an hour and a half or two hours ago, Michael, about making sure that you spend that quiet time alone. I can't have enough of it. To prepare. To prepare. Putting that oxygen mask on first. Making sure that I'm filled. That's good, dude. The oxygen mask. Making sure my lungs are filled with the Holy Spirit and God's Word so that I can minister out. It all goes together.
Efrain Negron: So, obviously, you know, I got this little pup, Boston Terrier, little cute thing. He's awesome. Pain in the tail sometimes, but he's awesome. So, he's literally consumed my time a lot because that's what a baby does. And I'm okay with it. So, the other day, I wanted to work out. I'm trying to get back into my routine of working out. And I'm holding him. I'm like, baby, can I have a little time for me? You know, he's like, no, I don't want to give you that time. So, you got to find the time for yourself. Read. I always, now, today, as old as I am, I encourage you to read. That's why I bought you that. Thank you. It's only 100 devotionals. You know, read one a day. If you're not feeling it, then you come back when you do feel it, you know. But it's only 100 devotionals. Then, obviously, you got the other one. I read a couple of them. I'm like, this is solid for them because you mentioned a couple of months back that you got to reinvent yourself in your relationship. Are you falling back in love with your wife? I'm like, oh, this would be awesome for them. So, I encourage anyone who's grown, who's going through transition. Because I tell you what, man. I'd rather have a broken bone than a broken heart.
Efrain Negron: You know, a broken bone can, you know, it won't be the same. But if you got a broken heart, it's a scar. You're always going to have that scar there. And I got very many scars and many different. Now, granted, I've hurt people and I've asked for forgiveness. Heck, I've even called people to say, hey, I know I've done this. Forgive me. Because you got to, you know, you have to humble yourself that way. You have to show a little humility. But what I'm saying is that with the scar, you're always going to have that scar there. And I got very many scars. So, I would suggest find that peace. Find a peace. Pray. Pray is always good. Even if it's just a couple of words, you don't have to, you know, you learn to grow into that. It's a process. Write. Write down all your, write down all the bad things. Bad things that happen. But also write down the good things. All the blessings that you have. Because it's not really. it's really not that bad. People have it a lot worse. You know, so I would say that peace, that quietness, and I love, I pull out my hair a lot of times. Now I smile with God. I say, remember those times, God? Remember when I was alone and in panic and afraid? Just the other day I said, I'm no longer afraid. If God wants to take me today, thank you. Thank you, Father, for giving me the life. For giving me the life that, kid, that didn't have anything. You gave it all to me. What more can I ask for?
Keith Vance: Listen, he gave you his son. What more can you ask for, right? He gave us his son. You know, and I relate to him. Everything else is just a bonus.
Efrain Negron: I always said, the torture that my Lord and Savior has went through does not. I can't compare to that. Right. I can't compare to that. Thank you. Thank you for showing me the way. Thank you for taking that pain away from me. Because no matter what, I can have, you know, my health can go bad. I still, it's still, look at what he went through. Still, I know who I'm going to. You know, one of the best quotes, I had a friend of mine. You probably know him, Brian Martin. He's been around this area. He died a few years back. His wife. God bless her too. She's a good woman. You know. How you feeling, Jerry? How you feeling? Heck, I'm fine. I know where he's at. He's not going anywhere.
Efrain Negron: That's awesome. Yeah. That's one of the best quotes I ever heard. So, God has gifted me. I'm God's story. And I'm the American dream. I'm the American dream. Because you know what? If a kid like me, a man like me today can still thrive. Yes. Not to survive. I'm thriving. Yes. I'm not surviving.
Keith Vance: This is a good place to end it, Efrin. I know you have more to say. But what you just said, this is a good place to end it. But before we do, we'll end it with a thought. But again, my relationship with you in business, you're not a part of my, like, you're not on payroll here. Um, but you're a, a partner with me. So, when we bid projects and we send the lumber to be priced out, um, you go above and beyond. You could just send the price back. Boom, here it goes. But what you've done for me and our partnership, and that's why I appreciate you so much, is, hey, Keith, the market's taking the turn. Like, let's price it out now. But, like, you, you have eyes for me. You, you, you protect me with what you see in the future. Um, also, um, even with the product, if something doesn't look right, if we, if, like, a certain type of fascia is called out, but you know that, hmm, that's probably not right. You'll make a, you'll make that phone call. You'll protect me instead of having me buy the wrong thing, and now you get to make a sale twice. You know what I mean? You're just a sales guy. What do I care? Keith says, Keith says, order it, order it. But you have, you protect me. You have actually helped, helped me in my business by having to exit your side of eyes that it's not your responsibility to have, but you've taken on that responsibility. But I am, Keith. You've taken on that responsibility.
Efrain Negron: I am responsible, because, one, I got God on my side, and I want to do the right thing, always, even when people aren't looking. You know, and that's who I am. You know, that's, I want to be treated the way, you know, I treat people the way I want to be treated. Fair, honest, you know, that's, that's who I am. I've always been that way, you know. And I appreciate, appreciate you calling me when there's a hurricane. Hey, you okay? Texting me, you okay? You know, that means a lot. Not everybody does that kind of thing. You know what I mean? So, I, we're blessed. God has gifted us. You know, we need to continue to probably, you know, it's hard for me to trust people.
Efrain Negron: Because people do have a tendency to, you know, to hurt you. Let's just put it out, to hurt you. In many different ways. But I tell you what, I surround myself with good friends, business associates. Because I don't want, I don't, if you're not. Right for me, I don't want to work with you. It's not about the money. It's about integrity. It's about character.
Keith Vance: That's true. Yeah.
Efrain Negron: You know, it's not going to do us any good if we're going to go ahead. If we can't trust each other, Keith, there's no sense in us doing business.
Keith Vance: That's right. So at the end of the day, really all any of us have, when it comes to business, all any of us have is our character. Once you damage that, what do you have?
Efrain Negron: I always said this. All you got is your word and your balls. You lose one, you lose the other. True. So, you know, I appreciate you having me on. I hope we can continue to cultivate and grow this. You know, I wish you all the success. You know, you're going to be going to you're a good man, Keith. You know, I always talk to your kids. Say, man, you know, I tell the man, you know, and I see you out there, you know, and I see you putting your heart out there. And it takes a strong, Still Strong individual to put yourself out there and be humble to the world. It's we need more men like us. You know, we need more men like us to go ahead and continue to lead because men are losing their way out here. And we need to try and reel some of them back. Not all. Just some.
Keith Vance: Good. Well, brother, I appreciate you being on. Appreciate the time. We're able to navigate through this. Some some really. This is probably the heaviest. This is probably the heaviest one we've had today. It's super heavy. Takes a special person to. Open it up and just say it. And I think you did it. You did a great job, dude. You did. You did a great job. I appreciate it. I appreciate your humility. And normally I would say, hey, if you could speak to someone who is. Anything but strong right now, what would you say? But I think you've already said it. Like your life story. Your life story says it.
Efrain Negron: My circle is extremely small and I try to be an inspiration of my son. You know, I tell him we need to continue to break those chains. Do the right thing always. You know, and I want to be an influence. I get people that are influenced some way, but they they need to do it. They need to be intentional. Everything's intentional. You know, different than building muscles. You know, you got to do it intentionally. It hurts and it hurts and it hurts. But at the end of the day, you feel good about it. You know, you do. You know, it's just you got it. It hurts. But there's always there's always that light. Keep going for that light. You know, I want to end this podcast.
Keith Vance: You're going to end it. You're going to end it. Those three words that I always hear you say.
Efrain Negron: God is good.
Keith Vance: Amen. That is good.
Efrain Negron: Amen. Thank you for having me. Appreciate you, man. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.