Automatic episode summary
Mark Koch, founder of the action-sports ministry Ride Nature, sits down with host Keith Vance days after returning from the Philippines and Indonesia — thirty-plus hours of travel, a fourteen-hour time change, and a layover in Korea he spent walking on a beach because he could not stand another airport. Vance made an exception to record midweek, and admits on air that the conversation is happening while his family sings happy birthday to his sixteen-year-old daughter in the next room. The two were connected by Pastor David Gold, a guest from an earlier episode, after Vance attended a Ride Nature banquet hosted by Summit Church.
Koch is 41, seventeen years married to Shannon, and a self-described girl dad to Ellis, Nelly, and Willow. He opens with a childhood in Ohio spent on a BMX bike, a two-stroke KX 80 he half-paid for at twelve, and homemade ramps built from scavenged plywood and spare tires. The nostalgia turns serious quickly. Koch describes telling his wife he was fine with his daughters thinking he was a mean dad, and the correction that followed: mean, he sensed the Lord say, is not a fruit of the Spirit. Vance — a father of five who has already given two daughters away in marriage — answers with the encouragement that children are gracious, that they detect hypocrisy but respond to honesty, and that the aim is not sinlessness but sinning less.
The heart of the episode is the origin and method of Ride Nature. Koch and Shannon were headed toward overseas missions in 2008, held offers from two mission organizations, and had peace about neither. In a frustrated prayer he sensed a redirect: use the things I have already given you a passion for. Action sports. Borrowing the delivery model of Samaritan's Purse's Operation Christmas Child shoeboxes, he imagined a skateboard as the gift that opens the conversation. The ministry name came from Romans 1:20 — God made evident through creation, so that no one is without excuse. With roughly eight thousand dollars to their name, they wrote a nineteen-hundred-dollar check to file the nonprofit, moved to Naples in January 2010, and carried twelve surfboards and forty skateboards to Nicaragua with a ragtag crew, several of whom were not walking with the Lord at the time.
Reading Acts 1:8 after that third trip, Koch was stopped by the word Jerusalem. The Wednesday night Bible study he started at the Naples skate park in 2010 is still running sixteen years later. Ride Nature now runs weekly outreach at public skate parks across Southwest Florida, has made roughly 250 international trips into 65 nations, and has put about 200 people through a six-month live-in discipleship program — several of whom first met Christ at those skate parks and now serve on staff or pastor churches of their own.
His case for skate parks is unsentimental. There are no parents at them. Skateboarding carries no age separation, so a 41-year-old can sit with an eight-year-old and nobody finds it strange. Kids beg to be filmed because no one is watching them. What they need is not a skilled adult but a present and consistent one — which is why Koch's team deliberately moved outreach out of their forty-hour work week, so it could never be excused as somebody else's job.
The last third of the conversation turns candid. Koch describes a season of pruning: giving down for the first time in seventeen years, a California base winding down from six staff to two, and the wrestle of Psalm 127 — did I build something without the Lord? Vance answers with the story of his father's forty-year-old church and the reminder that the church is the family of God, not a building or an organization. Koch closes with Bali: climbing a mountain at three in the morning past Hindu offerings left by people who believe the higher they climb the closer they get to God, and the joy of realizing that the God he worships is the one who came down.
Speakers
- Mark Koch guest
- Keith Vance host
Chapters
- 0:26 Home from Bali, boyhood in Ohio
Koch describes the thirty-hour trip home from Indonesia by way of the Philippines and Korea, and how he and Vance were introduced through Pastor David Gold. He then gives his background: 41, seventeen years married to Shannon, three daughters, and an Ohio childhood of BMX bikes, a KX 80 dirt bike, and homemade plywood ramps.
- 16:34 The mean dad conviction
Koch admits he told Shannon he was fine with the girls thinking he was a mean dad, and recounts the correction he sensed from the Lord that mean is not a fruit of the Spirit. Vance responds that kids can spot a hypocrite but respond to an open book, and the two talk about apologizing to your children and handing daughters off in marriage.
- 23:35 From consumer faith to ambassador
Koch traces where his passion for the unreached came from — his own testimony, the Great Commission, and Paul's ambition to preach where Christ has not been named — including his drift from 18 to 21 and the moment he sensed the Holy Spirit ask which side of the fence he would stand on. Vance and Koch then press on consumer church culture, being ambassadors rather than inviters, and learning to hear God's quiet voice in a loud world.
- 37:13 Ride Nature's ragtag beginning
Two mission agency offers, no peace about either, and a frustrated prayer that redirected Koch toward the things he already loved: skateboarding, surfing, and snowboarding. He explains borrowing the Operation Christmas Child model, naming the ministry from Romans 1:20, writing a $1,900 check to file the nonprofit, and taking twelve surfboards and forty skateboards to Nicaragua with a crew of friends.
- 50:08 What about Jerusalem?
After three international trips, Acts 1:8 checked Koch on the word Jerusalem, and in 2010 he started a Wednesday night Bible study at the Naples skate park that still runs today. He describes the first study — honest questions, Little Caesars pizza, and simple stories like David and Goliath — and how the same model now runs weekly across several Southwest Florida skate parks.
- 56:35 Skate parks, no parents, no posers
Koch argues children are the most receptive audience there is, and that skate culture is uniquely hostile to fakeness and free of age separation. He notes what he sees at every skate park in the world: no parents, and kids who want to be filmed because nobody is watching them.
- 1:04:52 The harvest is people, not events
Drawing on Luke 10:2, Koch says the bottleneck is not infrastructure or money but willing people, and that weekly consistency beats one-off events every time. He explains why Ride Nature deliberately moved community outreach outside the staff's forty-hour work week, and how the internship became a six-month live-in discipleship program that has released pastors, business owners, and staff.
- 1:18:48 Boards, powder, and a blown knee
A lighter stretch on fitness at 41, wakeboarding every other Saturday at a Fort Myers cable park, and the heli-boarding trip in British Columbia that Koch calls the best experience he has ever had. He also walks through tearing his MCL, meniscus, and ACL in a pickup basketball game and the long recovery that followed.
- 1:36:33 The girl at the Brazilian skatepark
Koch tells the story of a tired, intimidating stop in Brazil where he nearly suggested skipping the outreach, and of a rough-looking teenage girl whose only question afterward was whether this was a new religion. When she said she did not have a father, his Brazilian partner Bob told her that she does.
- 1:45:04 Steph Curry and a season of pruning
A thought about wanting access to a wealthy athlete turned into a conviction that anyone who knows God already has access to him, which sent Koch asking listeners to intercede for Ride Nature. He then speaks candidly about pruning — giving down for the first time in seventeen years, a California base closing, and the wrestle of Psalm 127 — while Vance encourages him with his own father's forty-year-old church.
- 1:56:16 Sunrise on a Balinese mountain
Koch recounts four days in Bali with his friend Indra: chaotic motorcycle traffic, a three a.m. climb past Hindu offerings left by people who believe the higher they climb the closer they get to God, and the realization that his God came down. At the summit he sang worship with fifteen Indonesian believers, and left urging them to start weekly skate park outreach.
- 2:04:10 Simple, hard, and worth staying
Vance draws the contrast between offerings left on a mountain and Romans 12 living sacrifices, and Koch agrees that following Jesus is simple but hard, like construction work. He closes with Ride Nature's actual needs — prayer, finances, and paying off three ministry properties — and Vance prays over him.
Key takeaways
- 19:05 Koch credits his parents with a phrase he still lives by: we will never be sinless, but every day we should sin less. He ties it to why he lets his daughters watch him apologize, and to why he keeps putting himself around men further down the road, like Pastor David Gold, who make him want to be a better father.
- 1:01:43 Koch's sharpest observation about skate parks is that there are never any parents at them. Kids beg to be filmed, he believes, because nobody is watching them — which is why he tells his team the last thing those kids need is an adult who skates well. What they need is someone present and consistent.
- 1:07:35 Ride Nature deliberately moved community outreach out of staff members' forty-hour work week so nobody could dismiss it as a paid person's job. Koch's work is creating resources and training leaders; the skate park is overflow. When he asked his team what would happen if the ministry shut down, they told him they would still go.
- 2:05:10 Koch's closing thesis: the simplest things in life are often the hardest. Walking with Jesus, being a godly father, refusing to chase whatever feels good — none of it is complicated, and all of it is hard work, like construction. He describes the weekly skate park gathering the ministry calls "skate church" not as a substitute for the church but as an expression of it and a bridge toward it.
Pull quotes
"You are mean, but mean is not a fruit of the Spirit. And I am not mean — and I am making you like me." Koch relays the correction he sensed from the Lord after telling his wife he was fine with his daughters thinking he was a mean dad.
"A kid can pick up a hypocrite. But they resonate to authenticity, genuineness — just open." Vance's counsel to a younger father is to stay an open book, because the kids are living with you and already know.
"For so many churches, the experience of church is like going to a buffet and eating and never actually contributing — like a potluck." Koch, who is careful to say he loves the church, argues a consume-only culture will always produce people who do not feel any need to be engaged in the mission.
"Everyone that knows me can talk to me." Koch had been wishing he knew somebody who knew Steph Curry so he could ask for a donation, and says the Lord cut through the daydream — asking a friend to approach God on the ministry's behalf is a far greater thing than asking a friend to approach an athlete.
Climbing a Balinese mountain at three in the morning, Koch passed pile after pile of Hindu offerings left by people who believe the higher they climb, the closer they get to God. He describes the joy of the contrast that met him on the trail: what separates Christianity from every other religion is that God came down. He and fifteen Indonesian believers sang worship at the summit at sunrise.
Scripture & context
- 28:58 Koch grew up a pastor's son and the oldest of four, the only boy among three sisters. From 18 to 21 he says he did not so much wander from the faith as forget it, chasing fun and adventure. Driving home to Ohio at 21 to sell off a converted school bus and a 1964 Impala, he sensed the Holy Spirit ask which side of the fence he was going to stand on.
- 44:54 Romans 1:20 — God has made himself evident through his creation, so that no one is without excuse. Koch says he read it the day after the ministry idea came, and it gave him both the name Ride Nature and the conviction that getting people outdoors puts them in front of evidence of their Creator.
- 50:26 Acts 1:8 — witnesses in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and to the ends of the earth. Ride Nature had already adopted "to the ends of the earth" as its tagline when Koch opened to the verse and was arrested by the word Jerusalem; the Naples skate park Bible study started that same year and has run for sixteen years since.
- 1:04:52 Luke 10:2 — the harvest is plentiful but the workers are few, so pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out workers. Koch pictures a mango tree with fruit rotting on the ground, and says the constraint on the work has never been access or infrastructure but willing people.
- 1:48:15 John 15 — the Father prunes the branch so it bears more fruit. Koch asked a friend who works with fruit trees whether it is normal to prune a branch that is already producing, and was told that on an avocado tree, if you do not, the whole tree splits in half. He is applying it to a lean year and a closing California base.
- 1:53:17 Psalm 127:1-2 — unless the Lord builds the house, the builders labor in vain; they eat the bread of anxious toil. Koch names this as his honest wrestle over the California work, then answers it himself by recounting how staff and a $100,000 gift for that base arrived unsought.
Questions answered
- What is Ride Nature, and how did it get started?
- Ride Nature is an action-sports ministry Koch and his wife Shannon founded around 2009-2010 after two mission agency offers left them without peace. In a frustrated prayer he sensed the Lord tell him to use the things he had already been given a passion for — skateboarding, surfing, snowboarding — and he adapted the delivery model of Samaritan's Purse's Operation Christmas Child shoeboxes, imagining a skateboard as the gift that opens a gospel conversation. With about eight thousand dollars in the bank they paid roughly $1,900 to file the nonprofit, moved to Naples, Florida in January 2010, and took twelve surfboards and forty skateboards to Nicaragua on the first trip. jump · 37:13
- What does a Ride Nature skate park Bible study actually look like?
- Koch says it began by simply asking kids at the Naples skate park what they believed about heaven, hell, and how a person gets there — and finding that almost none of them had a biblical answer. The next Wednesday he brought Little Caesars pizza to give everyone a reason to sit down, then taught foundational stories like David and Goliath, Jonah, and Samson. Sixteen years later the model is largely unchanged, though in the current lean season they have swapped pizza for hot dogs off a small grill. jump · 53:41
- Why does the ministry focus on skate parks specifically?
- Koch says skate parks gather people in one place the way a surf lineup never can, and skate culture has no age separation — a 41-year-old can hang out with an eight-year-old without it being strange. He also observes that at skate parks anywhere in the world you almost never see parents, and that many kids there come from broken homes. That, he believes, is why so many of them want to be filmed: nobody is watching them. jump · 1:00:21
- Why does Koch push weekly consistency over one-off outreach events?
- He says events can plant a seed, but the kids do not know you, and six months later there is no one for them to go back to. His pitch to leaders is far simpler and far harder — go every Tuesday from six to eight — and he notes how rarely people will commit to that. He compares it to the gym: the difficulty is not the workout, it is showing up until it becomes simply what you do. jump · 1:04:52
- How does Ride Nature balance local outreach with global missions?
- Koch says the tagline was already "to the ends of the earth" when he opened to Acts 1:8 and was checked by the word Jerusalem — he realized he could not train leaders overseas to do what he was not doing at home. The Naples skate park Bible study started in 2010 and still runs, and local outreach has expanded across Southwest Florida ever since. In parallel, the ministry has made roughly 250 international trips into 65 nations. jump · 50:08
- What if someone is not into skateboarding or surfing at all?
- Koch is emphatic that he does not want anyone to conclude they should do action-sports ministry. What God puts in one person's hands is not what he puts in another's — a golf club, a basketball, a paintbrush, a guitar, a shovel. His hope is that seeing a team of skateboarders with minimal education and no ministry background out doing this will provoke other people to use what is already in their own hands. jump · 1:09:08
- What does Koch do on the days he does not feel like showing up?
- He admits he did not want to go to the skate park for a long stretch after knee surgery, comparing it to taking a recovering alcoholic to a bar. He went anyway, and says those turned out to be some of his best days there, because without a skateboard he had no distractions and was simply present. He also credits accountability: when people know you will be there and you know they will be, you show up. jump · 1:41:57
- What does Koch mean when he says the ministry is in a season of pruning?
- He means finances are tighter than they have ever been — 2026 looks to be the first year in seventeen that giving will come in below the prior year — and the California base is winding down from six staff to four to two. A friend who works with fruit trees told him that on an avocado tree, if you do not cut back the fruit-bearing branches, the whole tree splits in half. Koch reads it through John 15: the Father prunes what he loves so it bears more fruit, and he believes the vision has not changed, only the strategy. jump · 1:47:47
- What did Koch take away from climbing the mountain in Bali?
- Climbing in the dark at three in the morning, he kept passing small piles of palm branches, flowers, food, and incense, and his friend Indra explained they were Hindu offerings — people believe the higher they climb, the closer they get to God and the more he hears their prayers. Koch says the Lord met him right there with the contrast: what separates Christianity from every other religion is that God came down to us. He and fifteen Indonesian believers reached the summit at sunrise and sang worship together. jump · 1:59:53
- What does Ride Nature actually need from listeners?
- Koch names prayer first — intercession for workers, direction, and provision — and says exposure and awareness are among the ministry's biggest needs. Finances are second: summer is lean in Florida, and this is the first year in seventeen that giving looks likely to fall below the prior year. He also shares that the ministry owns five properties, two free and clear, with roughly $250,000 of debt on each of the other three, and that they are praying to have those paid off by the end of 2026. jump · 2:07:48
Helpful links
website
- Still Strong Shop The podcast's own site and merch shop, mentioned on air when Vance gives Koch a Still Strong shirt.
verse
- Romans 1:20 — Creation Leaves No Excuse The verse Koch read the day after the ministry idea came, and the source of the name Ride Nature.
- Acts 1:8 — Jerusalem to the Ends of the Earth The passage behind Ride Nature's tagline, and the one that convicted Koch to start local outreach in his own city.
- Luke 10:2 — The Harvest Is Plentiful Quoted twice in the episode as the reason the ministry's greatest need is workers and prayer for workers.
- John 15 — The Vine and the Pruning The chapter Koch leans on while walking through a season of cutbacks and closing a ministry location.
- Psalm 127 — Unless the Lord Builds the House The psalm behind Koch's honest question about whether any part of the work was built without God.
Full transcript
Mark Koch: I learned the hard way. Nothing's overnight. Some days you lose, some days you survive. Still
Keith Vance: Mark Cook, welcome to the podcast, brother. Thank you, man. It's a grateful honor to be here. We, normally host these on Saturdays. We made an exception for you because you're a busy man. You just got back from a trip. Mhmm. And you said, Keith, you gotta strike when the when it's hot.
Mark Koch: Well, you it's nice. Strike when it's hot. When you feel hot, you're excited to talk. Yeah. So I am I've got some fresh stories. Little not not too jet lagged anymore. But Well, good. Fourteen hour fourteen hour time change from where I came from. It's crazy. Crazy. You get back and it's, like, a midnight, but it feels like you're hungry for lunch because it's lunchtime back. But,
Keith Vance: yeah, thank you for So having real quick since we brought about, you just got back from Indonesia.
Keith Vance: What was the
Mark Koch: time difference? What was the travel time? Because you did told me and it was Yeah. Yeah. Blew my mind. So I came from I was actually in The Philippines first. Okay. And then you get in that part of the world and you're so far away from home and you know it took a lot of work to get there. So I ended up tacking off four extra days. My wife was gracious enough to let me stay away from the home for four more days, but I I flew from there to Bali. I had never been to Indonesia before. You I've read about it. I've heard about it. Indonesia, I I wanna say it's the fourth largest country in the world. Mhmm. And it's the largest Muslim pump population in the world. But we I have a I have a really good friend who lives there. I've never visited him. I've met with him in The States. He's been to The States a few times. And so the vision was just to go there to spend time with him. But, yeah, four fourteen hour time change. But I'll just tell you the flight home, I had to fly from from Bali to Korea to LA to Tampa and then drive home from Tampa, and it was not fun. It was rough. It's just, you know, you're thirty over thirty hours of travel. Wow. So and I'm not good at sleeping, sitting up, and then you're sitting there. And and then they wake they wake you up the whole flight to give you food that is, like, subpar. But I landed I it was kinda cool. I landed in Korea at, like, 7AM, and my flight didn't leave Korea till noon. And so I left the airport by myself. I was like, I'm just gonna Uber. And I I went on the map on Uber, and I just put dropped a pin at the beach. And I just took an Uber to the beach, and I just walked on the beach and just sat there for a couple hours and took the Uber back to the airport. Yeah. My wife was like, what are you doing? She she's like, what are you doing? Leaving the airport. And I was like, I'm just not I can't sit in an airport anymore. I gotta get outside. Are you still somewhat jet lagged? Are you acclimated? I feel I feel pretty good now. Yeah. How long did it take you to get acclimated? They say it's one day for every hour before you're fully before you're fully transitioned back. You were thirty hours? Well, no. No. Fourteen hour time change. So they would say fourteen days, two full weeks before you're back, like, on a totally normal schedule. But, I was I was I think because I didn't sleep for pretty much thirty six hours, forty eight hours, you know, I got back and I crashed and they almost kinda reset me on a on a normal time. Alright, brother. We're gonna get into it. Yeah. But before we do, I normally give away these hats, still strong hats, but you said you're more of a shirt guy. I would like it too. Yeah. Well, that's because I ruined shirts quick. So Shop stillstrong.com.
Keith Vance: You can buy these shirts. Let's go. Or you can get them just by being on the podcast. Yeah. Let's go, man. Thank you very much. Design. Yeah. I like that. It's, it's bigger letters Yeah. But, a muted color. Yeah. No. That looks awesome. Thank you. I think maybe because my brand, I'm self conscious of it When it was so big and bold, I was like, man, I I like I like the muted look. Well, because well, I'm just thinking still strong.
Mark Koch: Oh, it could be viewed. Right? It's like, look at me, like, I'm still strong. That's not what it's about. No. Yeah. But, dude, I also I'll repay the I'll repay it. I got a shirt and some socks. Dude, check this out. You can't really see these on these ones super well, but it says on the toes, good news, which is Romans ten fifteen. How beautiful are the feet that bring the good news? Oh, good deal. And Thank you, man. Some little bit of Right Nature merch from the ministry. Actually, this, it's got a picture of we've got our offices downtown Fort Myers. That's a picture of the coffee shop. On the back, we got a surf, skate, coffee shop downtown Fort Myers. So if you guys get down there check you out. Come check it out. Get some coffee. And then Who's this? This is a magazine, years ago. We were just we were doing so much outreach, traveling, taking pictures, and we're like, man, we need to really put this into a format that can live a little bit longer. You put pictures on social media, they're gone so quick. And so we are like, let's put together kinda like a coffee table style journal photo book. And so that's just pictures from the last year stories of what God is doing through the ministry. Thanks. So, yeah, you're welcome. Thank you. Yeah.
Keith Vance: So the reason you're here is, several months ago, I got invited to a banquet at Summit. Mhmm. And, there's two extra tickets. So a friend called me up and said, hey, dude. I got two tickets. You wanna come? I had no idea what ride nature was. I just showed up just to be friendly. After the banquet, it was like a fundraiser type banquet. I felt a strong connection with you. I made my way to you, shook your hand. You probably remember me because of the beard. I remember the beard. And then
Mark Koch: I had a mutual friend on the friend on the podcast, pastor David Gold. Hey, man, dude. I love that guy. You saw it. Right? You saw his podcast. Watched the whole thing, dude. I actually I watched it on the flight home from Asia. I downloaded it on YouTube and watched it on the flight, It was good. It got me actually, it really convicted me. There were some there were some nuggets in there. Heavy stuff. Yeah. Yeah. So I reached out to him and, he gave me your number. We connected.
Keith Vance: You're on the other side of the world Mhmm. When I texted Yeah. And said, hey, I got a long flight coming and Totally. Yeah. So so here you are. So And even and even crazier story, I was just chatting with David a couple days and he said, man, I need to connect you with Keith. I was asking him about the podcast, telling him it was encouraging. He goes, I need to connect you with Keith. And I said, well, he actually reached out about the podcast. He goes, you need to go on the podcast. And so Good. So here we I'm looking forward to it. Yeah. I feel a connection with you just with a little bit I learned about your ministry. I like I'm gonna we're gonna take our time and dive into it. But before we do, just give us a little introduction, who you are, your father, like, what's life like for you, age, all that good stuff. I'm
Mark Koch: I'm a girl dad. Actually, I'll be married. My wife and I have been married. This October will be seventeen years. Good for you. And I'm 41 years young, which is, because of my wife. She's amazing. My best friend, we've got three daughters. Willow's five. Nelly is nine, and Ellis is 11. And, I grew up the oldest of four kids. I was the only boy. Okay. My dad and I were really close, but I was always getting in trouble. I was really rambunctious and rebellious. And someone asked me the other day, they're like, did you get spanked a lot as a kid? And I was like, I was like, yeah. I got spanked a lot. And they said, how many times do you think you got spanked? I said, I told him, I said, I it is unnumerable. I was like, at least a thousand. You know? And they said, there's no way you got spanked. And I was like, I probably got spanked every day. You know, you figure two or three years at three hundred and sixty five days. I was like, it adds up. But I had three younger sisters, and all I wanted was brothers, you know, because I wanted to fight. I wanted to wrestle. I I was always building tree houses. My parents blessed me. I was able well, I got a a BMX bike as a young kid, and and they let me ride my bike all over town. Like, I would be far from my house. And, when I was 12, I I don't I don't know how I got introduced to the thought of dirt bikes. And I was like, dude, I wanted to level up from the BMX bike to the dirt bike. And my parents were like, well, you have to pay for some of it. Like, we're not just gonna buy you a dirt bike. And so I found this little KX 80 that was $800. And they were like, we'll pay for half if you pay for half. So I ended up selling that BMX bike for $200. I saved $200 at 12 years old, and then they paid for half. And then I just started to we didn't even live in the country. We lived in probably, like, a one acre. It was, like, I guess, a bigger oversized lot in Ohio, but I rode that thing around the neighborhood. It was a two stroke and super loud. And,
Mark Koch: yeah. So I I love I love all things I would say this. I love all things adventure. I I self proclaimed jack of all trades, master of none. I love skating skateboarding, surfing, wakeboarding, motocross, dirt bikes, fishing, hunting. I'm like, I'm in on all of it. So
Keith Vance: You, listened to you talk about your childhood vibed with me a little bit. I wanted a BMX, brother. I had the Huffy. Oh, yeah. Well, yeah. Last I had the Huffy. And Totally. Do you remember the the bikes That'd be late nineties, early two I have probably late nineties that didn't have the spokes. They're like the solid plastic. Like, five. They were, five maybe. Or But then they're the ones that were a solid wheel. It was a solid plastic. I do remember that. Mongoose or something. What was it called? Mongoose? Mongoose. Do you remember those?
Mark Koch: I wanted one of those so bad, dude. Like, my friend had one. Mongoose is back, I think. Are they? They've come full circle. Yeah. Because when I was a kid, they were real popular, and then I feel like they sold out to Walmart. Oh. And then you could buy a pump Mongoose at Walmart, and it kinda, like, went down. But I think it's back. But I was actually thinking about getting a BMX bike again. Just like an old school one? Yeah. Like, you I grew up in a town that didn't have a skate park. K. So I skateboarded, but you can only skateboard so much without you know? And building ramps for a skateboard is a lot more difficult than building ramps for a bike. Like, I could find a sheet of plywood and, like, a spare tire and just lay it down and you could be jumping your bike. But when you wanted to have, like, a ramp for a skateboard, it made it a lot harder. And we made we made some ramps that were real ghetto for the skateboard, but, the bike the bike is more is more that So It can go further. Yes.
Keith Vance: So do you remember the first ramp you built when you're a kid to jump your bike off of? Oh, yeah. Definitely. Tell it to me. And I'll tell you tell me yours, and I'll tell you mine. I think I think it was. I so
Mark Koch: I shouldn't have been telling you this because you're in construction, but we would we would take wood from construction sites. You know? And I'm pretty sure it was that story. I found a sheet of plywood. We probably just pulled it off. It probably someone doing a doing a house. And, I think it was either I can't even remember because it was probably I was probably 10, not a nine or 10 maybe. Either we tipped over a trash can K. Or a couple I think it was a couple spare tires because I think it was two tires and then, you know, and that was it. No bracing underneath of it. It was just yeah. My first ramp, I was
Keith Vance: seven years old, and I found a two by eight, a two by eight Yeah. Yeah. And some bricks. Oh, yeah. I was in South Carolina. Oh, yeah. Greenville, South Carolina, and I stacked all the bricks up. There might have been some center blocks and had that two bite like that. Oh, yeah. I jumped at once. Like, yeah. And then I would make my brother, my little brother lay down. And I would clear him, and I you could see where your tires would hit. I would go out farther. If you go out farther, I would clear him. And you never hit him? I never hit him. I don't think I ever did. I was in I
Mark Koch: was in India of all places, and we were doing little demos at these schools. And we were doing that with kids, like, at these schools in India. And we had this thing actually. You should look this up. It's called it was called jump pack, and it was a little jump. It was a little, like, little ramp that folded up and went on your back. It was like a backpack. And it was rad. And we took that thing to a bunch of schools. We would line up these little Indian kids, and we were jumping them. And, I was at this was just, I don't know, handful of years ago. I was on the microphone. I wasn't jumping kids at that point, but we were getting we would get close to kids because you wanna keep adding more kids just like you wanted to keep moving your brother further away.
Mark Koch: We never landed on a kid, thankfully.
Keith Vance: So let's just stay here for a minute while we're while we're reminiscing about our childhood, and then then we'll move on. Similar, bro, when you had a bike when you're a kid back then, that was your freedom. Dude, that was your community. Do you remember all the bikes stacked up in the front yard at someone's house? Like
Mark Koch: I was in Walmart the other day. I love Walmart. I'll go on record. I love Walmart. And I'm walking around Walmart, though, and I get in the bike section. I'm like, dude, I love bikes. Mhmm. And I'm like, this is this is one of the greatest inventions Yes. Ever made. And it is I'm like, if you're homeless and you get a bike, dude, you have transportation. You can go so far, so fast. Actually, on a bike on the bike topic, we we're doing a lot of ministry here in Southwest Florida with kids. And for whatever reason, road cycling is getting popular. I always thought it was a little bit lame, but, a bunch of these skaters are getting into road bikes. Like, they wanna, like and they're like, hey. Let's do a long distance road bike trip. And just like a month ago, we went down, they're like, let's do an overnight road bike trip. And I was like, let's ride the whole Keys. And so we went down to Key Largo. We started in Key Largo. We finished in Key West. In two days, we rode a 100 miles. Nice. I did zero training. I was like, one day or maybe three days before the trip, I rode my bike eight miles. And I was like, I'm good. I was like, it'd be good. It was harder. It was much harder than I anticipated, but it bikes are freedom, dude. Like, I mean, I rode a 100 miles the entire length of the keys on a bicycle. It was it's just crazy. Bikes are, yeah, bikes are awesome. So speaking of bikes, I told you my first ramp, we were in South Carolina when I was a kid,
Keith Vance: and then I moved here when was 10 years old. So if you can imagine Paris Mountain Yeah. South Carolina mountains To South Florida. You know, you you pedal so hard to get to the top of the mountain. And then you just get And you're standing up. You're pushed, pushed, standing up, and then you get to the pot top. Just that
Mark Koch: it's beautiful. Right? So
Keith Vance: when we moved to Florida, my parents like, how do you like it?
Mark Koch: I think this place sucks. Flat, dude. It's flat. I gotta pedal everywhere I go. No hills. It sucks. Yeah. That's like my impression of Florida was take me back home so I can ride, like, close my bike. Well, Caloosahatchee Regional Park is close to here. It is. You ever bike there? I haven't. I know it's there. I've I've It's kinda fun. Run through it. It's it's got these little sections where you pedal, pedal, pedal, and you get, like, ten seconds of coasting. Yeah. But It's not the same. It scratches the itch a little bit, but downhill but I'll tell you, downhill mountain biking, they frown on getting on the lift. Like like mountain bikers, they're not they're like they would say this, like, kinda weak, you know, if you just but I was in Tennessee, and I got to I went to this place, Ober Mountain. Mhmm. And we got to put our bikes on the back of a lift. And, bro, it is it is the best. We've been there. Ober Mountain. We've been there. It's it's amazing. Yeah. You you you sit on a chair, takes you to the top, and then you just bomb down the hill, you sit on the chair, take you to the I probably went down the mountain 50 times, you know, and it's just you don't even have to pedal. You just, like, get pedal a little bit, and then you just start cranking fast. And yeah.
Keith Vance: That's cool. So in life where you are now, you're a
Mark Koch: girl dad. You have three daughters. Mhmm. I got five daughters, bro. Yeah. I know. I need some advice. I need some advice. Help later on. I I got some experience. I'll take it. Yeah. My kids are easy right now. And my wife grew up she was just her and her sister. So she grew up with just girls in their family. And her parents always said, if you put in the hard work early, it's easier when they get older. And you're smiling at me, but I'm, like, just praying that she's right in that. But
Keith Vance: I I love girls. I got two boys. I love them too. But girls are they're special, man. Yeah. They're special. But it's hard it's hard being
Mark Koch: and, honestly, I'm trying to the Lord is teaching me what this means, but to be filled with the spirit and kind and gentle. And, the other day, it's it's it is very hard for me to be slow to speak and and and soft. And Shannon, my wife says, she goes, Mark, do you want the girls to grow up and think that their dad was mean? And I was like, I am mean. You know? Like, I was like, I am a mean dad. You know? Like but I was like, honestly, like, it's not the worst thought. Like, this is this is the wrestle in my head. I'm like, it's not the worst thought that they think of me as mean as long as I know that they that they know that I love them. But then the Lord spoke to me so clearly, and the Lord is like, you are mean, but mean is not a fruit of the spirit. And I am not mean, and you I am making you like me. And it was this thought of, like, if I'm if I'm if I justify it, I can say that I am mean because in my flesh, I'm a mean person. But then I'm like, what is the fruit of the spirit? Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, you know, and all these things. And I just felt the Lord check my heart and just be like, you can't be okay with thinking that you're a mean dad. And I'm like, no. You're right. I don't I just said it kinda in the in the moment. I'm like, I definitely and it was so sweet that night. I'm putting my kids to bed, and and Ellis, my oldest, she's like, I don't think you're mean, dad. I don't think you're mean, dad. And I'm like, okay. Good. And I'm like, like because I'll she was right there when I was like, I'm okay if they think I'm mean.
Keith Vance: But kids are kids will cut you some slack. Yeah. My kids are
Mark Koch: Gracious.
Keith Vance: Dude, you're you're doing it for the first time. Totally. You're doing it for the first time. You're trying to do your best, but you're they're watching you Everything. Blunder through this thing. Totally. And then to have the humility and the grace to say, hey. I'm I'm sorry I was mean to you today. Mhmm. And at the end of the day, I don't think you're mean. They're gracious. Totally. And they resonate to
Keith Vance: like, a kid can pick up a hypocrite. Mhmm. But they resonate to authenticity, genuineness, just open. Mhmm. So I would, like, encourage you just to keep that open book. Mhmm. Mhmm. Just to keep the book they know anyway. They're living with you. Totally. Try to cover it up. I mean, the fact that they get to see me
Mark Koch: apologize is humbling for me, but, hopefully, they get to see they get to experience forgiveness and and remorse and and hopefully progression. You know? Like, I think that, like, I grew up in a church and with parents that that continue to affirm this idea that we will never be sinless, but that every day we should sin less. And I think the hope is that every day I'm becoming a better dad because I'm becoming more like Jesus and that the sanctification, you know, like, the Lord is just refining and refining. But then you you get around guys like David Gold, and he's just telling you about how he's a dad, and you're like, dang, dude. I need to be a much better dad. Like, I gotta get around guys. And I think that's that's the whole idea, right, of discipleship that we get around people who who challenge us to be better, and maybe they have walked further. They have kids that are older, and it's like, let me tell you what I've learned. And, hopefully, we would say, yeah. Let me let me hear what you learned because I'm gonna apply it.
Keith Vance: Yeah. I got five. I've given two away. Yeah. I can't imagine. Bro, the first time that experience hit me, like, wow, it it snuck up on me. So so you know when your wife gave birth and then you held your daughter for the first time, you know that feeling. Dude, I can remember it like yesterday. Yeah. So it's it's like that times 10. When it's but in the on the sadness? It hits you out of nowhere. Like Cool. Like like, where did the time go? And you're gonna see this beautiful adult girl, but you're gonna see her as that baby that you held for the first time. Totally. And then you're gonna before you get ready, hand her off to your future son-in-law, you're turn to her. And I turned around between him and her. I said, are you sure this is what you want? Totally. She's like, dad, get out of the way. This is my destiny. And you hand them off. So you raise them, you do the best you can do, and then you hand them off to hopefully somebody
Mark Koch: better than you. Right? Better than you. Yeah. So it's good stuff, man. You're gonna You gotta we gotta stop talking about this because I don't wanna I gotta I gotta lot I gotta wild before that happens. You're enjoy it. Listen. It's gonna come real quick. You know, but it's it is it is an exciting thought for me because we have three. I I do believe that well, I'm praying that God will open the door for us maybe to adopt. My wife is 40. I'll be 42, in not few in just a few months, but, she's like, don't wanna get pregnant again. So unless we adopt, and maybe we will, I'll end up with sons. But the thought that my daughter's, you know, getting married and I'll get son in laws, it was kinda like I have three the three my three sisters are all married now, and I have brother in laws. There you go. And for the first time, when they got married, I was like, dude, I I get to experience what it's like to have brothers, and I love it. Like, my brother in laws are are truly my best friends. Like, I love them. And so I'm hoping I'm sure my daughters will marry good dudes, I hope. And, I'll end up getting to have sons at some point if the lord doesn't bless me with sons. You're
Keith Vance: my I got two little two daughters left, and you talk about being a mean dad. I'm gonna be transparent. I'm a bad dad. Are gonna are you gonna tell him? Are you gonna tell him? I'm gonna tell him now. Yeah. Because today is my youngest daughter Ella's sixteenth birthday party. We're recording the podcast here. I'm doing a podcast because I had to get you because we got struck by us high, and I'm not good with dates, and I'm not good with stuff. You didn't My family is being gracious to me. They're in there singing happy birthday to her while you and I in here doing our thing. Well So when I talk about kids being gracious and cutting you some slack, I got good kids, brother. I I pulled up in my truck, and then your wife comes out, and she's like, yeah. It's my daughter. She said, I almost got in the truck and turned around and left because I was like, dude, I'm not about to contribute
Mark Koch: to this sin that's happening right now. So, like and then you're like, I'm a bad dad. I was like, yeah. I'm definitely I'm leaving. So we gotta wrap up the podcast pretty quick so you can get in there. But It's all good. In fact, I should have brought her some stuff for her birthday. You better give her those socks. I'm gonna take it. I'm gonna it's gonna take more than socks. Yeah. It's gonna they might have to give give you some more stuff. Get her, one of those, BMX bicycles or something. Yeah. The mongoose, dude. 16 year old. Or a car, I guess. She already does she have a car already? No. She probably gonna wind up with one after this, though. Definitely. Yeah. Definitely. Check it out. Let's
Keith Vance: get into your ministry ride nature. Yeah. Let's talk about that, and then we'll just, as we hit little pockets that we vibe, I'm gonna stay there. We'll drill down as long it takes, and we'll just go to the next one. Yeah. I love it. So Ride Nature, what is it? How did it come to fruition?
Mark Koch: Mhmm. Let's hit it. So, my wife and I, we started dating in 2008. I had just graduated college. She was just graduating college. I had applied to teach English in Korea as a second language. You can teach just conversational English to Korean people. They'll pay you pretty good. And the thought of getting to travel and get paid and, was exciting to me, so I applied. This was in September. I was gonna go in January, and my wife, was friends with my sister and was trying to figure out what she was gonna do, and we started talking about going to Korea. She was like, I wanna hear about this Korea thing. So she applies at the same school. She gets accepted to go in January. And long story short, we start dating in the process of us talking about going to Korea. And, my wife's sister calls her one day, she's like, you think it's a good idea to go to Korea with your boyfriend? And so Shannon calls me because we're actually living I was living in Colorado. She was living in Missouri. She was like, hey. My sister was saying asking if I thought it was a good idea if we go there as a dating couple. And I'm like, for sure, Alec. This is gonna be awesome. And then we start talking about the struggles of being there isolated, no accountability, each having our own apartment. You know? We're like, and we decided it probably wasn't the best idea. Anyway, so we ended up dating, ended up getting engaged in this process. Both of us kind of have this stirring in our heart for the idea of missions of global ministry outside The US. Specifically, what does it look like to bring the gospel to people who have never heard before? This is this is our heart and our passion and, just the fact that people could be born and live and die and never even hear the name Jesus. Like and this is the reality for one third of the world. And so this is just starts to create this burning passion in both of our hearts while we're dating. And so we ended up getting married in early What sparked that? Where did that come from? The passion for the gospel.
Keith Vance: What sparked that?
Mark Koch: I you know, it it starts with your own testimony. For me,
Mark Koch: you realize the impactfulness of what Jesus does in your own life. I think, obviously, to someone who doesn't know the Lord and has never been in a relationship with him, the idea of people not knowing that means nothing. But is is this is, like, on a very micro scale. But if if there was the best restaurant in this area that you had been to and tasted and you kept it a secret, you would be, like, the worst friend ever. You know? You're like, oh, and and you naturally share the things that you enjoy. You know? Like, when we enjoy things, you invite people into that. And so both of us having, you know, known what it's like to not walk with the Lord, then knowing what it's like to walk with the Lord and have relationship with him. I mean, it it also is out of a conviction of the command of Jesus to say, go and make disciples of all nations that it is it is not optional for us as Christians to not make disciples. If you're a believer, if you're walking with the Lord and you're not making a disciple, you're you're living in sin. You're not doing what Jesus told us and called us in. He said that to the disciples. It wasn't just to them, but it was, it was to all of us. And so, obviously, God calls every person to do that in different ways. I love what Summit Church, the church that hosted the banquet that you came to, they they use the language. It's wherever you live, work, or play. Mhmm. It's your hobbies. It's your life. It's your neighborhood. It's in every aspect of where you're at. But not many I mean, Paul, I I forget the reference, but I'm just thinking this right now. When Paul says, I desire to preach the gospel where his name has not been yet named. You know, this this these places where, the gospel had not gone was Paul's ambition. That was what he said to make it my ambition to preach the gospel where where it has not gone. I I think that that is a unique call and passion for some. But for my wife and I, we really felt like it was what God was calling us to, with some regards to that. And and I grew up in a Christian home. My dad was also a pastor. And I was I would I wouldn't say I was the black sheep, but I was definitely I was that same rebellious kid. You know? Like, it was just in my nature. And I would say it wasn't even necessarily rebellion, but it was it was the pursuit of fun. It was a pure pursuit of adventure. And and I hate to say this, but Christians are not that sometimes not that fun. You know? Like and and so the people who I gravitated toward that I had the most fun with were some a lot of times not believers. And so from '18 to 21, moved out from away from home and and just kind of, I would say, not necessarily wandered from the faith, but kinda forgot the faith. And then at 21, my parents called me, said they're moving from Kansas to Florida. And my dad said, you gotta come home and get your stuff. I had, I had bought this old it was, like, in the maybe late eighties, this short school bus that had turned into, a party wagon. You know? Like, I would take it camping. And then I had an I had a 1964 Chevy Impala two door Super Sport. Sick car. And I had bought both of those. They were sitting in the house. I was living in Colorado, and they were like, you gotta come home and get your things. Your dad my dad was like, you want me to sell that? And I'm thinking, yeah. Right. I was like I was like, those are worth a lot of money. So in that process of me moving back home, leaving Colorado to go back home to try to, to be honest, just sell those things to get money, the the holy spirit spoke to me and was just like, are you in or out? Like, you can't you can't say that you're a Christian and live in the world, which is why it was happening. I wasn't going to church, wasn't really reading my bible, and it was just what side I remember the holy spirit just so clearly, like, what side of the fence are you gonna stand on? Okay.
Keith Vance: Don't lose your train of thought. Yeah. Yeah. No. Don't lose your train of thought.
Keith Vance: You can be a Christian and look like the world and do these things that the world does. Mhmm.
Keith Vance: We know where that what that looks like. We've all experienced it.
Keith Vance: God lets us kinda get a taste of of subpar food. You talked about the plain food. He lets you get taste of subpar food. Totally. And you're eating and everybody else is enjoying it, but you're like, this is not good. Mhmm. And then you come back. So there's that. But there's also another dynamic you talked about because I asked you what sparked it. Mhmm. And you said, man, when you've ate at a good restaurant, you just wanna tell everybody. Mhmm. So some people,
Keith Vance: they do the church thing. Mhmm. They go to church on Sunday. They sing. They hear the message. Mhmm. And then they go about their week and it doesn't affect them. Totally. You understand? Mhmm. So which one is worse? I I I would say they're both the same because they're both ineffective. Totally. Whether you're around your friends as a Christian and not, you're keeping your light head Yeah. Doing the same things they are, or if you're just in your own little comfort zone not being a light in the So as you're talking, both of them are, I think, lies. Mhmm. Right? So you go you do you go and you do your thing and you feel like you've done something. Mhmm. But how did it impact the loft around you? Totally. How did it impact the forces of darkness? Mhmm. The forces of darkness upset with you? Are they like, then we gotta do something about this? For sure. They don't care if you're showing you little you you little things, say you little singular things that Jesus do your little thing. Mhmm. As long as it impact that environment. Right? Totally. So we're all called to be a light where we are, where we work, live, and play, like you said. Totally. And doesn't mean you gotta go to South Korea to do your thing. You can do your thing right here. 100%. So it's just that's a good challenge. Yeah. Because I think a lot of people
Keith Vance: need to be challenged in this regard. You just got back from Indonesia. Mhmm. I don't wanna get there yet. Yeah. But I think the contrast, I'm sure there's a contrast Mhmm. Between the Christians in Indonesia and here. I think we're pretty comfortable
Mark Koch: in our routine, and we're gonna get there. But I'm just as you're talking, if I feel something come up No. I hear you, man. Gonna say it. Totally. And I think because what you're describing is we live in such a consumer culture. It's like, for most good for us, man. Well, for most churches and I and I love the church. I want that to be clear. I love I believe that the the the church is the bride of Christ. It is the end goal of all missions efforts. But for so many churches, the experience of church is like is like going to a buffet and eating and never actually contributing like a potluck. And I think the idea that we've created a space where people can come and just consume and not contribute will always create a culture where people don't feel the need to be engaged in the mission. And, like, I was just thinking when you were saying this, like, Christ has called us in to be ambassadors.
Keith Vance: Yeah.
Mark Koch: But you can't be like, you what you can't do is that I gotta bring my friend to church so he'll hear the gospel and not feel like you are you are the ambassador. You are an ambassador of Christ, him making his appeal through you, through me, to the people around us where we live, work, and play in every area of our life. And And what that looks like practically
Keith Vance: for me, in my experience,
Keith Vance: is well, tomorrow's Saturday, but Monday before I get them go to work, I'm gonna get on my knees. Mhmm.
Keith Vance: I'm gonna commune with God. Mhmm. I'm gonna ask him to guide and direct me. I'm gonna have ask him to have my eyes be open to the needs of others instead of my own needs. My needs are easy, brother. Amen. I wanna see the needs of others. Mhmm. I'm gonna consume his word. Mhmm. And then I'm gonna go out and be in a conscious state of where God, where do you want me? Amen. And when you're in that state, his holy the Holy Spirit puts people in your path
Keith Vance: Mhmm. Speak to them. Mhmm. It's like Totally. And I've been experiencing that the last twelve months. And the thing is the sad thing is is I think it's always been there. I've just been consumed with my own my own stuff, my own problems. You think it's because
Mark Koch: you have so much noise, it's hard to hear. And quiet. The totally He's quiet. And the and the more space I'm giving the Lord to speak to me, the more I'm learning to hear his quiet voice in the midst of a busy world and a loud world to where when you're walking down the street and you hear him say, stop and talk to that person or share this or or this hasn't happened to me. It has happened a few times, but it's like, when God gives you a word for someone else. Mhmm. And I think it's because we stay so busy and we have so much noise that it's hard to hear the Lord's voice, even over our own voice.
Keith Vance: Yeah. Yeah. So that's something that's been working on me the last the last year or so. So this is good timing to have you here Mhmm. Because you're
Mark Koch: out out there. Mhmm. You know? You you you had mentioned we talked on the phone. You're like the black ops of the gospel. You're out you're out there. That was self proclaimed, but mainly because I like the idea. I I I there's a small part of me that kinda wishes at 41. I'm like, I'm probably not gonna be in the military at this point, but I get envious when I you know what it is? It's every Memorial Day or when we celebrate, you know, the military that I'm like, dang. I wish I wish I would have enlisted or served my country. It sounds fun. It sounds exciting. It sounds adventurous. You know? It's like so now I'm like, I'm just I'm in the Lord's Army That's good. Which is That's the best one to be. It's the best one for sure. And, I like to think I like to think of Ride Nature as, like, the secret service. Like, we're undercover missionaries. You know? Especially in places like So you started to describe
Keith Vance: that, and then I kinda got you off. You kinda No. No. Yeah. You kinda described, like, the work. So let's let's
Mark Koch: what is it again? So you and your wife So we going to South Korea. We're feeling this this call toward missions. We had applied to work with several different mission organizations, and we're offered positions from both. And so then the prayer becomes, alright, Lord, which opportunity do you want us to go after? And I'm working for a roofing company at the time. And and in my spirit, I just didn't have a piece of either one. And, like, in in which is hard when you have two decent options, two things that seem exciting, and it just I didn't feel a piece about either one. And and in a moment, in a frustration, in a prayer of frustration, it was like, Lord, like, just tell me what to do. You know? Like, tell me what to do. Like, here I am. And we were sincere. We were like, we will move we'll move to Iraq if that's where you want us to go. Like, we'll go, Lord, like, wherever you want us to go. We're like, just tell us what to do. And I was frustrated. I prayed that prayer, and I felt like in that moment, in that prayer, the Lord was like, use use the things that I've given you a passion for. And and I'm like and I felt that in my spirit, and I'm like, action sports. Like, I just I'm like, that's what I love. Like, I was I was 24 years old. I had just come out of a season of living in Colorado working as a snowboard instructor on a mountain, snowboarding every single day. And I'm like, I love snowboarding. And I love skateboarding. I love surfing. I love mountain by saying, I felt like the Lord, like, use those use those for ministry. And, and one of the ministries we had applied to work with was a ministry called oh, I'm sure you've heard of Samaritan's Purse, but the ministry was Operation Christmas Child, the shoeboxes. In my whole life, I have grown up. I grew up, with parents. We would pack these shoeboxes around Christmas time. You put all these things in here, and those shoeboxes go out to kids in third world countries, and they use that gift as a way to share the gospel and then to connect those kids with the local church and use it as a way to disciple them. And I felt like the Lord say, use that model. Use that model. And so I came home, and I told Shan, I was like, you know what's crazy, Shan? I was like, there are millions of kids around the world that'll never get to skateboard. They'll never get to ride I wish we gave we should give away more bikes. I'd be sick, but they'll never get to ride a BMX bike. They'll never get to feel the freedom of a bicycle. And I'm like, what if what if we could bring boards to kids and use this as an introduction? What if we could get a kid on a skateboard or give a skateboard to a kid? And what if we could share with him the the the the gift of salvation because of Jesus? And I'm like, dude, how impactful would that be? Like, a kid I'm like, the kids I was like, my mind, I'm like, those kids are getting shoe boxes, but I'm imagine a skateboard. This is like a thousand times better. And she was like, you wanna start a nonprofit? And, I was like, I think so. I think this is what we're supposed to do. And immediately, I told the pastor of the church we were going to, I told my brother-in-law, and I got no support. Like, they were like, not the best idea. You know? They were not real. I think probably because I was just a punk 24 year old kid. You know? Like and I was and I'm not much a whole lot has changed, but, I was like, I think this is what we're supposed to do. And we didn't have a ton of money. I think maybe we had $8,000 in our bank account, which back then, felt like a 24 year old as a newlywed, I felt rich. But, to start the nonprofit to file for the nonprofit was, like, a $880 application fee, and it wasn't guaranteed. And so we had been advised to hire on someone to help you fill out the whole application, put together these bylaws, and do all this paperwork, and their fee was a thousand dollars. So it was almost $1,900. And I just remember being like, poof. It's a lot. You know? And we were like, we're in. We're doing it. We stroke the check. Boom. $1,900 pay. We get So your wife your wife originally was unsure? You know, she, she is so amazing, dude. She was like, if you feel like this is what the Lord's calling us, I'm in. I'll do it. You know? And and she is not an action sports person. She's dude, she we are so different,
Mark Koch: and which is such a beautiful thing because it's like the Lord gives you people in your life that are very different than you to compliment you. When
Mark Koch: when we were dating, she moved out to Colorado. She found a a roommate, and she moves out to Colorado. And I told her I was a horrible boyfriend because I told her, I said, listen, Shannon. You're gonna have to learn to snowboard really fast because when you get down to the bottom of the lift, whoever you're with, if you're waiting on them, I I said it really sucks. Like, it's annoying. And so I I was like, we don't wanna wait for you. And I'm, like, just riding with my buddies. You know? And so I'm like, if you're gonna be out here with the boys, you gotta keep up. And so she she learned, man. She learned to ride fast. And there was times where I would be looking over and she was just like, just going straight down the mountain. Was like, Lord, please don't let her wreck. She's gonna die. But, that was not her passion. You know? It wasn't like she was just exuding this, like, enthusiasm for action sports, but she was super passionate about people coming to know Jesus. And so she was like, alright. I'll follow you. It's
Keith Vance: my wife is my like, this thing that I'm doing here, my wife supports this. I don't know why. Especially on your daughter's birthday. Bro, she supports this. Yeah. Everything that I've done in business, that woman has supported me, she's got behind me. Amen. And it just gives you, like, everybody else in the world can be against me. Mhmm. But if I know she's got my back Totally. Bro, that's all I need. That just fuels me. Same. That fuels me. Yeah. And now I've come to the point now when I'm 50 years old, I look back when I was young, just thought I just knew everything. I was just gonna, like, just get after it. I'm glad I didn't know then what I know now because
Keith Vance: it wasn't wise choices I made. It was just like I I was optimistic and I'm just gonna go. Totally. And how scary it must have been for her to be in the passenger seat when Andres pedal to the metal yolk. Totally. I got this. You know I mean? So I have appreciation for wives for supporting Mhmm. Without touching that freaking steering wheel, bro.
Mark Koch: She your wife is she, she's got the gift of discernment. Like, she's I feel like I get mad at my wife when we're literal when she's literally a backseat driver. You know, if I'm driving, she's like, tell me, turn here. Turn here. I'm like but in in life, she's like the best backseat driver. Because she's like, I don't think you should do that, or I think you should do this, or I think we, you know, like, it's we.
Keith Vance: And she's almost always right. You know? She has such a gift of discernment. What's your wife's name? Is it Shannon. Shannon? Yeah. Should be Karen because you you're describing my wife. Yeah. My wife has got discernment that I don't have. They have a sense about things that we don't have, and I'm willing to trust her intuition because every time that I haven't Mhmm. She's been right and I've been wrong. Mhmm. But she hasn't resisted me. She's like, I'm a support you. She doesn't say I told you so? She supports me, bro. She never said I told you so. Because she knows I know. Yeah. She knows I know. So you got a good wife, man. No. I do. I'm I'm I'm really blessed. I take I feel like I I don't I take her for granted. But So she goes to check for $1,900.
Mark Koch: So we so we file so so the full story, just as, like, a bit of the history. So we're living in Branson, Missouri, which is where she grew up, and, it was, coming into the fall, into the winter season. I'm like, I got we gotta get the heck out of Branson. This place is I'm not trying to live here. And so we know, alright. We're gonna go after this idea of action sports ministry. The Lord the Lord put on my heart this name, Ride Nature, mainly because I I one day, I'm reading right right as soon as the idea came. The next day, I'm reading in Romans one. It says that God has made himself evident through his divine creation so that no man is without excuse. Mhmm. Romans one twenty. And I remember thinking, for so many people, they can discover the creator in creation. Yes. And so there's just this idea of ride nature, you know, like in you get people outside, you get them outdoors, and and I think that God has made himself evident. You see him. And and so my family was living in Naples, Florida, and we drove down middle of December, which is an awful drive. It's so so long. But we drove down to and I remember just being like, now I'm in Naples with my wife. You know? And I'm like, dude, Naples is nice. Like, it's, like, bougie. And, I'm looking around, and you're seeing all these nice cars and big mansions. I'm like, this is where we should start the nonprofit. You know? Like, there's a lot of money in Naples. And so we started looking over Christmas. We started looking for an apartment. We signed a lease, and we moved down right after the New Year in January 2010. And I think I think it was, like, right then when we were, like, kinda hit the ground running like, alright. What does this look like? So we started talking. We started exploring, you know, all these different options. And I had a, a lady who went to my church whose son was living in Nicaragua. And I said, can you connect me with him? So I called this guy, Chris Shabley, and Chris is like, yeah. I'm living down here. He's like, dude, this place is poor. Nicaragua's poor. And he was like, there's a lot of kids down here that would probably love to skate, love to surf, and there's a lot of surfing and skateboarding down here. So I was like, dude, we're gonna come visit. We're gonna come visit. So we start in January, start raising a little bit of money. We self funded a lot. We bought we ended up with 12 surfboards and, like, 40 skateboards. And then I started inviting some of my friends. You talk about my wife being a good a good wife. We went down there with six guys and two girls. My wife and my sister came on that first trip. A lot of those boys that I was with were just ragtag. This is about bootstraps, like, you know, ghetto grassroot ministry. But these guys, a few of them weren't walking with the Lord. It was just it was a it was a ragtag trip, you know, but, we get down there. So hold on a minute.
Keith Vance: You took some some of your friends with you? Mhmm.
Mark Koch: Yeah. We didn't have no team. You know? There was no staff. It was it was like, hey. We're gonna go down there and bring a bunch of boards to give away to kids. Who wants to come? And then these boys are like these guys are like So hold on, my brother. Surf trip. They're like, that sounds good, man. I'm in.
Keith Vance: Jesus, when he called his 12 disciples, those are some ragtag boys. It was just like that. It was just like Come follow me. Okay.
Mark Koch: Totally.
Keith Vance: So I'm just picturing, like Tattoos. The people that the people are called to mission. You know, we when you when we hire people, you're looking for a certain caliber. Totally. When Christ calls people, he he chooses the weak, the, like, the the things that you wouldn't
Mark Koch: The people who don't look like maybe like David Gold. I love you, David. But, not everyone looks like a pastor. And the fact that those guys would roll with you when you had really had no plan yet. Dude, you know what's crazy is? Is that all those guys now are walking with the Lord, which is just crazy. Because I remember that very first trip, Shannon being like, what's what's the plan with alcohol on these trips? You know? Because it's like, at the end of the day, these guys are like, I wasn't really maybe I drank a couple beers, but I don't think I was drinking a lot. But those guys, it was like, there was no rules. You know? She's like, what's the what's the plan with this? And and, dude, it was just we were figuring it out. But this to put how God moved on that trip, we had a lady at our church. She was like, here. Take down a bunch of these school supplies. And I'm like, dude, I don't wanna bring down a bunch of crayons. You know? I'm like, are we gonna do with these? You know? And pencils. And one day, we were going to this this beach, and we passed this little school where you see all the kids running around outside in the playground. And we were like, dude, we should bring back all those school supplies to those kids. And so the next day, we went, got everything, took them back there, and none of us spoke Spanish. So we had found a guy the first day we were down there. We were just learning on the fly. We found a guy that was bilingual. Like, hey. Can we pay you to be a translator? We just paid this guy. He came with us. So we go to the school on an uninvited, and we roll up to the school, we say, hey. We have a bunch of school supplies. Can we give them away to the kids? And the teachers go you know, through this translator, they're telling me this. They're like, yeah. Do you wanna have all the kids come out? You they're like, you wanna share something with them? And I was like, yeah. Sure. Sure. You know? They bring out all the kids out of every classroom. Wow. And and I we just share the gospel with these kids. And then we give them some school supplies. We end up giving them some skateboards too, and the teachers are so happy they're giving us hugs. You know? And I'm just like, dude, this was and I I I think in that moment, you know, subliminally thinking subliminally thinking back, I'm like, I think I was realizing this is pretty easy. Like, if if your heart is willing, this is pretty easy to do ministry like this. This is I'm like, how how simple was this? Anyway, we came back from that trip. The Lord opened the door for us to go to Mexico a month later. We come back from that trip, and we ended up going to Peru a month after that. And,
Mark Koch: yeah, I could go into story after story, but, right after the third trip, we were using the tagline to the ends of the earth. That's that was the tagline. That still is the tagline for right nature. And I open up my bible to acts one eight where that passage comes from, and Jesus says, you'll be my witnesses. You'll receive power when my holy spirit comes upon you, and you'll be my witnesses in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and to the ends of the earth. And I felt like the Lord say, what about Jerusalem? And and and immediately, I knew that I was like, I can't go to these other places and meet people there that need the gospel and train leaders on what it looks like to keep doing and not do it locally. Was like, we we will be the biggest hypocrites. And in 2010, we started a bible study at the Naples Skate Park on Wednesday night, and it's still going today, sixteen years later. And we've just added and added and added more local outreach to our schedule, to our team based off of God's provision and resources and people. And the number of international trips and outreach has just continued to grow. And fast forward from from to that trip in May 2010 till now, you know, over sixteen years, we've done 250 international trips. We've Wow. Boots on the ground in, 65 different nations. Wow. It's it's it's humbling, man. Like, the the doors that God has opened, the places we've gone, and the structure's gotten a little bit better. My wife is she's helped refine it a little. That's It still is. It still is kind of ragtag. But I think that's what makes it that feel. I think that, you know, we're we're true to our culture because,
Mark Koch: the action sports world is it is a culture. You know? It's a it's it's not by missional definition, it's not a people group, but there is, like, a shared language. There's a shared demographic. There's, it is it is a culture that is very much judgmental to fake. In fact, in skateboarding, you've probably heard this term, but poser. You know? It's like, no one wants to be a poser because that that world is very much against people being fakes. And I think what has been so powerful is that when people experience Christianity in a way that is real and authentic, it's respected even by people who are not believers because they're like, dude, you're you you know those magicians, Penn and Teller? Mhmm. They said one day after one of their shows, they said, the problem that I have with Christianity is that if people really believe what they say, you must hate me to never share the gospel with me. Right. Because Because you must be the most worst person in the world to not share the hope. If you think I'm gonna go to hell, eternal damnation separated from God, you must be the worst person in the world that you wouldn't share the hope of Jesus with me. And I'm I'm like, totally. That's so true.
Keith Vance: So describe to me,
Keith Vance: like, a local event or even an overseas event. Like, you you mentioned the Naples Park when you Yeah. Went down there and started bible study. So so what do you remember that first time you did a bible study? I remember around that time, my brain my brain probably won too many concussions.
Mark Koch: But, I remember feeling that conviction, and I remember being at that skate park. And I would go from time to time anyway because I like to skate. And I remember just asking kids for the first time the same questions I would ask a kid internationally, like, hey. Do you believe that there is heaven, or do you believe that there's hell? Do you believe in a creator? And if you do, how do you believe that you would get to heaven? In that first Wednesday, I remember you gotta go to church. That was one answer. One kid said, you have to put money in the offering. And I remember my response immediately was, okay. Well, how much? Like, what's the what's the buy in? I was like and I remember telling him, like, can you imagine you die and you kid before God? And he's like, well, son, you were just $100 too short. You know? Like, you didn't make it. And and I just remember asking these kids, like, you know, about the Lord, about faith, and none of them having a biblical answer. You could tell none of them just had never, you know, either grown up in church. So I I said, hey. Would you wanna come to a bible study? If we start doing a bible study here on Wednesday night, would you wanna come? And they were like, yeah. Sure. Well, then the next Wednesday, I picked up little Caesar's pizza because I was like, we're at least hit them with a little bait and switch. You know? And it just felt a little easier to engage them. Sure. And so we brought pizza, and they all it gave you a place to sit down. We're like, hey. We're gonna have some pizza. You guys want some free pizza, the kids sat down. And then we just started super simple bible studies. David and Goliath, you know, Jonah, Samson, like, just basic, basic, like, children's ministry almost and just started laying foundational truths, you know, of who Jesus is, what the bible says. And, and that's still pretty much exactly the model. We show up. We do this now. Naples, Benita, Lehi, Cape Coral, Fort Myers every week. Every one of those public skate parks every week, we show up, hang out for a little bit. We we actually we just stopped bringing pizza. We're we're in a season right now where the Lord is pruning the ministry. I feel like he's cutting back some finances. So we're like we've we've it's funny because we said we thought it was downgrading, but the kids are so we started bringing hot dogs to the skate park. Oh. Bring a little grill, and we're like because we're like, dude, the pizza pizza's getting expensive, and then we're bringing, like, five to six large pizzas to every skate park every week to multiple skate person. You're just like, alright. We gotta cut costs a little bit. The kids are stoked on hot dogs. They're, like, fired up on the hot dogs, but bring bring hot dogs.
Keith Vance: I got a question. Yeah. List listening to you talk about meeting the children where they are in skate parks. I'm I'm just remembering a story. Christ is teaching and children are coming to him that disciples are pushing him away. He's like, suffer the little children. Come to me. Get out the way. Suffer them to come to me. Totally. Are children still receptive?
Mark Koch: Well, I can tell you this firsthand. They're the most receptive. Isn't that crazy? It's and and you know what it is? Is that the older you get, the harder your heart gets. And the and the deeper your worldview is ingrained in you. And I think the reason Jesus was so receptive to the children is that kids are teachable. And and and, actually, at one point, we had a lady come to the bible study at the skate park, and she got real mad. She's like, you're just trying to brainwash these kids. And and I I didn't want to say I agreed with her, but in some ways, you're like, yeah. We're trying to get in their brain at a young age and tell them that they're loved and that there's a purpose for their life and that there is a god that created them. Like, we're trying to tell them. And and Josh McDowell would say like, he did a study on this, he said that if a child is presented the gospel before the age of 10, there's a 90% chance that they'll walk with the Lord when they get older. And for me, it's too early. We have to be strategic on how to bring the gospel to kids, to young and and and we're in we're obviously skateboarding and surfing and wakeboarding, it's it's one of the most unique sports because there's not really age separation. You're never gonna see a basketball league where a 40 or 50 year old man's playing against a 10 year old kid who would they'd be really fun, actually, but it would never ever exist. But at the skate park, as 41 year old, I can be hanging out with the kids at eight,
Keith Vance: and it's not weird at all. It's just it is what it is. Yeah. Just soon you talk about that, it's normal. Totally. But any other like, if your show played t ball
Mark Koch: Bro, you'd be crushing home runs. You know? Out of here. You know what mean? Totally. And even in the Olympics now, you know, skateboarding, surfing, BMXs are Olympic sports. There's no age separation. It's men's skateboarding, women's skateboarding. And you'll have right now, dude, there's a kid who is is, like, probably in the top 10 best skateboarders. He's, like, 13 or 14 years old, and then you there's another guy from Canada, Ryan DeSenzo, same age as me Wow. Skating in the same contest, and you're like, dude, this kid is a literal little little kid. He looks like a little kid skating against a grown man dad father. You know? And these guys are competing against each other, and so it provides you this space where it's not weird to interact with kids and to to be able to build relationships. And then and then it it just provides that space, you know, that you can you can do that. And, yeah.
Keith Vance: The other, as I'm digesting this and just trying to put I'm trying to put myself there that skate park and envisioning the dynamic.
Keith Vance: Just that environment is conducive to have conversations.
Mark Koch: Totally. A 100%. Whereas other
Keith Vance: dynamics, when you think about these phones Mhmm. And iPads where kids are into themselves Totally. You know how hard it is to pull this thing down. Totally. So you already have some barriers that are automatically out of the way with where we are in in life of technology. Yep. It's it's already an easier access to have a conversation with someone because of
Mark Koch: Get this. Like Because they're in nature. They're out. They're out. They're outdoors. Yeah. And and this is this is I mean, I'm so passionate about this because I'm seeing it. It is cross cultural. Almost every skate park in the world looks very similar, like, physically, but then also the culture in that skate park. It's there is a a community element at the skate park of people hanging out. Same in same in the ocean as you sit in a lineup with other surfers. But but you know what I see everywhere in the world? At every skate park, I never see parents. Like, you you would be hard pressed to go to a park and find no parents or a baseball game and see no parents. There are always parents at those places, but at the skate park, no parents ever. The kids there get dropped off. They skate there themself. They I I am convinced of this. There is a high population of people in that industry and culture that come from broken families where they maybe don't have a father figure. There's not a good dad in their life. There are they're just not parents. And so what often happens is that kids I mean, this is this is all of skateboarding around. If you well, I guess this wasn't for us because we didn't have phones or really cameras back then, but now everyone wants to be filmed. It's like, Film me. Get it get my trick. You know? Get my clip. And, and I think it's because what's sad is is because no one's watching. And me being now a a a dad and an old man at the skate park, kids, they could care less how good I am. They're like, hey. Watch this. Like, watch me. And it just kinda breaks your heart because you're like, how many of these kids just wanna be seen? And their parents are just not there. You know? And so they're like, hey. Their buddies are filming them, and then they post that on social media, on Instagram, or whatever because they just wanna be seen. They want that trick to be seen. It's really like it's a check-in your spirit of, like, just being there. And, like, we're always sharing this with our team. It's like, dude, it's not about how good you are. Like, that's the last thing these kids need. It's about being present and being there and being consistent. Like, we show up every week to the skate park with the rare exception that it's, like, dumping rain and, like, we just assume no one's there. But even a lot of times, if it's sprinkling, we're like, well, maybe there's still kids there and you show up and they're all sitting under the, like, the covered area. And they're hanging out, we still show up. And we're like, alright. We won't skate, but we'll at least hang out, you know, and chat. But that's the that really is the model. So what what God has done is is it has allowed us to practice what we're preaching to literally put into action to test this strategy for ministry. And all we're doing around the world is just sharing with people this is what's working for us. This is what we're doing. This is what you should do. And part of the reason I'm passionate about this is just just in North America, there's 10,000 skate parks. USA Today, this would have been years ago, but they said that there's more kids skateboarding than playing little league baseball. Wow. And I was just in Brazil earlier this year. They finish there's a new public skate park that opens up in Brazil every week. Wow. A brand new one. Boom. Next week. Boom. And then you think, dude, each one of those skate parks create a pocket of kids that they're just there. So here's the thing. The infrastructure is already there for you. It's already there. It's a low cost entry because it's already built. It's already there. You just gotta show with some pizzas. You just need people. And and and and we've and we're testing this even with the hot dogs. Right? The pivot from the pizza. I don't even think you need to bring anything. In fact, we're telling leaders all the time, just show up. Don't like, if you bring pizza, the problem is now they're gonna expect it. But just show up with nothing and see if it works. And, dude, it's working. Like, it's working in places all over the world. Leaders are showing up, they're bringing nothing, and they're starting bible studies at the skate park. And
Keith Vance: Where I'm where I'm getting at where I'm what I'm seeing is
Keith Vance: there's an infrastructure there that's growing. Mhmm.
Keith Vance: God put a calling in your heart to, hey, do what you love. Mhmm. And you're finding that kids are just wanna be seen. Man, you talk about some ripe fruit. You talk about some easy picking. Know what I'm saying? Just show up and Well and then record a kid and tell them about Jesus It's it's And that they're listening to you and that they're receptive.
Mark Koch: When Jesus said to the Psalmist, he said that in Luke ten two, he says the harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. I feel that. We feel that. And it creates almost a sense of weightiness of, like, dude, the harvest is like imagine imagine you have a mango tree and the fruit is just falling on the ground and it's just getting ruined. You're just like, dude, this is like there's so much low hanging fruit. You're like, we gotta get it. We gotta get it. And it creates almost a sense of urgency and passion, but but the biggest need is people. Because it's like, can't go to the skate park every week everywhere, obviously,
Mark Koch: But trying to find people and, dude, what's so hard and sad even is not many it's pretty rare to find someone who's willing to say every so often, people are like, dude, let's do an event. I'll go to skate park once. But if we're like vents are great. They're cool. You know? But the impact you wanna see real fruit. It's like, you forget the event. Just go every week. I go every Tuesday from six to eight. And people are like, I don't know if I can commit to that. And you're just kinda like, okay. Well, the event might work for a little bit. You know, maybe it does something. But you gotta think, these kids, they don't even know you. Like, you just wanna show up at a skate park and do an event. And, yeah, maybe we can preach the gospel. It happens. People kids will listen. At least the seed was planted. But now what? Who do they who do they go to in six months from now? And they're like, maybe I wanna learn more about this. Like
Keith Vance: Consistency. Right? Especially with kids. Yeah. Consistency.
Mark Koch: And it's hard. You I mean, you work out and you go to the gym. You know how hard it is to be consistent? It's hard. It's not easy. It gets easier when it's just what you do. And and you know what it is? Like, I asked our team a few months ago. I said, hey. If we shut down Red Nature, what would happen to local outreach? And, bro, it almost made me cry because our team's like, we would still go. Like, still go to the skate park. Like and they're like, I'd still go to the wakeboard park. Like, I and it's because it's their life now. Like, our team and our staff, it's their life. They're like, I'm not doing this because of money. Like and and we actually we actually told our whole team, alright. We're like, okay. Cool. From this point forward, it's not a part of your forty hour work week. You know? Like, what you do in the community, the outreach we lead, we want to model so heavily something that can be replicated that what we do in the community is not a part of our job. It's a part of the overflow. Because if all of a sudden you're like, okay. That's cool. You go to the skate park mark on Wednesday nights, but I have a job. I can't do that. And I can say, no. This is not my job. I I work my job at Rite Nature to create resources and talk to leaders and train plan events or whatever. My job is that. I go to the skate park and above and beyond. It all of a sudden is like, okay. Well, I don't have no more excuses anymore. And, we've shifted that entirely across the whole org because we're like, we don't want this to be a stumbling block or something that enables people to say to have an excuse. You know? There's
Keith Vance: there's endless work that needs to be done. Yeah. I mean, where I'm at where I'm going to church now, I I I'm helping this dude that he has a heart for the jail. Mhmm. So he was needing somebody. So I just shadow him. I go to jail on Thursday nights to shadow him just to support him. Every other week, go to a a foster home out in the middle of nowhere. These these boys out there. So there's there's an endless need for work. Totally. It's just, okay, God. Here I am, two ears, two eyes, two hands. Totally. You could be busy doing anything. A 100%. But I feel like we all have a place that we're supposed to be strategically. You find that place. Totally. And every day, you do what you're supposed to do and the the the work is the Lord's work. Amen. But we we see it. As we're working, we see, man, we need more. But then there's there is that sense of urgency and that sense of accountability we need to feel, but we also remember hey. God is building his church. This is his work. I'm just and it takes the kinda, like, takes the pressure off of it. And I think the what I don't want to ever
Mark Koch: come across is telling people that they should all do action sports ministry. Right? It is it is it is just one tool. Right. Because because what God puts in my hands is not the same thing he puts in someone else's. And so if someone has a golf club, a basketball, a paintbrush, a guitar, a shovel. Like, we're just going after a group of people in a way that with things that he's already given us a passion for Sure. And a and a resource in our hands. And and our hope is and this is why I think Crossroads and David Gold are supporting right nature is because I really hope and believe it inspires other people to say, okay. Well, if this group of young people that are just skateboarders that are, like, for a lot of our team, minimal education, no background in ministry are out there getting after it, dude, like, what what what I should probably be doing something. You know? It almost is like, alright. I gotta pick it up. And
Keith Vance: Have there been any kids that you've ministered to that are a part of Rad Nature now? Or Yeah. Yeah. Actually, there's there's been an amazing season.
Mark Koch: In 2011, I was just like, dude, I need help. Like, I'm feeling that way. My wife was working. I quit my job. I was I was just a valet parker. I was a good hustler, though. I'd run real fast. I was getting good tips. I was making, like, good money. And I was just like, I can't do this anymore. I got two money things that I'm thinking about. And and so Shannon was like, I'll just I'll just work and support our family. You know? We were so broke. But I was like, need help. And so we I put online. We started promoting an internship program. And we had three young guys that joined our team, and it ended up being really, I was discipling those guys while they helped me. We did everything together. And, and about a year after that, once they had been here for a year, we we kind of evolved it into a discipleship program, and it turned into a six month program. People could come. We had housing for just guys for for a long time. Probably the first five or six years, guys would come live in a house together, and they would just we would just be together. You know? There wasn't and we say I say program forever. For a long time, there was no program. It was just, let's just go do this. Let's do this. Let's you know, we just but you're just disciplining these guys. Well, anyway, fast forward now. We have this discipleship program here in Fort Myers that, and in Central America that we can talk about in a bit, but, it's a six month live in a house. We have a guy's house and a girl's house now. And, yeah, people just get poured into, and and we've had what has been so cool is we've had young guys, Max would be an example of this, and Steven actually, that that gave their life to the Lord through the skate park, joined the discipleship program, got poured into for six months, and now we're on staff with the ministry. And, and the hard the hard part with that is in the messaging, I guess, is that we we don't want to just bring people into right nature. Like, the hope is that we're raising leaders up and releasing them. But we've had, like, I wanna say probably 200 people come through the discipleship school. Wow. And, and guys that are pastors now, guys that are business owners. Yeah. Like, young young men and women who are, like, crushing it now for the kingdom. And, yeah, one if if Donnie Della Cruz, you ever listened to this, he's a senior pastor of a church in Tennessee, and I'm like, I can't believe Donnie's a pastor. This is crazy because I just knew him as an intern, you know, as this young kid.
Keith Vance: Yeah. It's been it's been good. That's a that's a a testament to the working of the gospel in someone's life. Amen. And he's awesome. I mean, Johnny Just just go out just go out and share what you're supposed to share and let God do the work in his in someone's life and Amen. When we're supposed to be as good. But we gotta get out there, don't we? Yeah. We gotta Yeah. I mean, back back to the global to coming back from Indonesia, you know, you come back and it's just I wish I wish I would've I should've brought a globe.
Mark Koch: We've done this a couple of times, but you just I spin it and just close my eyes and just see where my finger touches, and it's like in almost every part of the world, you will find skateboarding, surfing. Dude, I just learned this maybe six months ago. I ran as a 50 ski resort. Really? And I ran public ski resorts. You just go there and and and I'm like I'm like, dude, I could've instead of living in Colorado working at a series, I could've lived in Iran. Wow. And and Japan has less than I wanna say less than 3% evangelical Christians, 97% non non Christian peep population. Over 500 ski resorts in the country of Japan. More more ski resorts than North America. And and we're talking about this idea of leaders. How do we find leaders? Because if you told me I love skiing, I love snowboarding, and you would say to us, I'd be willing to move to Japan, I'd be like, bro, you should. You should go work at a ski resort in Japan and be a Christian skier or snowboarder, and you will be shocked at how many people you're gonna meet there as an American working in Japan and the ability for you to share the gospel with people because you moved your life to Japan, it will blow your mind. We're praying for that. Like, we're praying that there that we could mobilize and empower and that right nature as a global ministry can move people into places that are extremely hard to reach.
Keith Vance: So what you just said about Japan and, hey, go work for a ski resort as a job and just be a light. Yeah. I have a a nephew. He lives in Australia. He was they call it a they have a uni over there, which are Yeah. University. Yeah. Yeah. Uni. He was here on break from uni for the summer, and he he works out. He's strong. Duty's strong. He's freaking strong. So strong. He's he's over here. He he's really strong. So he's finished up his last bit in school, and he was working as a bounce as a bouncer in a nightclub and stuff. And he now he he works in a in a jail. So he wants to work in a in a prison as a guard. And the reason is because here, you know, I had to do a little background check to go into jail, you know, a little and do a little orientation. No big deal. They let you go in there. They let you talk to people. In Australia, they don't let you do that. Why? The pastor of his church has been trying to get into the prison for, like, years and just can't get in. They don't they don't let them, like, proselytize. They don't they don't they just don't let them. So God put it in his heart to I'm gonna be a prison guard, but I'm gonna be a Christian. And these guys have nowhere to go. So rad. And I'm gonna give them I'm gonna give them the gospel, and I'm gonna share with them the good news as as his job. So that's his It's the best. Dude, you don't have to overcomplicate it. He's gonna get paid to
Mark Koch: preach. Yes. And I'm like and so that's what we're saying as a ministry. We're like, how do we reach a population? Do for years, they said that skateboarding, surfing, like the global population was around 200,000,000 people, which is still a pretty big number. And then right after COVID, it really took off. Like, it kinda, like, there was a resurgence of skateboarding and surfing. And then I think because of the induction of both those sports into the Olympics, the population went from 200 to 400,000,000. And just in the last year, they're saying now it's probably closer to 409 they say 490,000,000, almost 500,000,000 people a part of that industry. But we're like, dude, how are you ever gonna reach 500? Imagine trying to reach the entire United States, every city, every little town, every community, every Walmart. You know? Like, I'm like and so for us, the only way we can do that is we have to start thinking about how do you move people into those places using just work, normal jobs, like how to and and we're using the language, how do we decentralize the work of right nature? How do we move people away from our organization and empower them and equip them to just be a light? But, dude, my wife went to Australia before we, before we met. She said she didn't meet a single Christian in Australia. It's super it is extremely, I think, maybe maybe I don't know if open to the gospel is the right word, but, like, she said when they were there, they were they were doing ministry and evangelism, and people are like, oh, that's cool. You believe that. But they're like, I'm not I'm not into religion. You know? They were just so Right. Yeah. Just they would never ever tell someone that there's one way to get to the Lord. And
Keith Vance: yeah. So if you're is your nephew that's there? Yeah. My I got a my younger sister, she, married a guy and moved to Australia. Cool. And, she's got three boys. They're good kids. They don't surf or skate?
Mark Koch: They do all that stuff, dude. They do I mean, Australia's dude, I'm trying They're all about the outdoors over there. I They they rock climb. They they they they they Australia, I never been there, but I keep thinking in my mind. I'm like, Lord, if you ever call me out of The United States, it might be to Australia because it seems like those are those are good people over there. What else do you wanna talk about in regard to ministry? You wanna talk about your Indonesia trip yet? Or Yeah. I was gonna say we could go full circle and just kinda maybe wrap up with the Indonesia. That wrap up yet. Okay. I I would just say this. Ministry. Yeah. Yeah. Want do you wanna end with Indonesia?
Keith Vance: How you what are you feeling? Because I wanna talk about a few things. I'll just take you off topic. You're 41 years old and you're you're still getting after it. So your fitness level as compared to when you're younger, you wanna talk about that real quick? Just take a little a little segue. I need to yeah. Sure. I need to get strong.
Mark Koch: I I I feel I feel healthy, but I do think it it was it was when I turned 35 that I felt like I the the injuries took longer to recover from. K. It was like the rebounding of taking hard falls. So what's your what's your what sport do you like the most? Are you a skateboarder? You know what? I really I really What do you what do Well, I love you. I love skiing in well, I don't love skiing. I've never skied, but I love snowboarding. Snowboarding. But we live in Florida, so that ship has sailed. Although, I did get invited. I got to go up to BC last year and snowboard in Northern British Columbia, which was amazing. But, I still like snowboarding. It's the best it's it's the best because you sit on the lift and you just go down. You know? It's the least work, but you get to go and you get to go the fastest. And because the board's strapped to your feet, you could just boost off big jumps. You can go big. But
Mark Koch: I would say and I really love surfing. Do you? But but we live on the Gulf Of America. Yeah. So that's few and far between. I have to drive to the East Coast. I get to surf in other countries. But what I've really started to love is wakeboarding.
Keith Vance: Okay.
Mark Koch: I don't have a boat, and boats are expensive. But now in the world of wakeboarding, they've we've got cable parks. Did you go to the one in North Fort Myers? Every other week, twice a month. I know those guys over there. Yeah. The owner, I framed his house for him. You did? Nick? Nick. Yeah. Yeah. Revolution cable. Of course. Yeah. I know Nick well. Framed Nick's house, and then we used to own horse around Delhi. Okay. And him and Nick and his boys used to in all the time. Cool, man. Yeah. They're good. So we've know we've known Nick for a long time. When we moved, we moved the Ride Nature headquarters from Naples to Fort Myers in 2016. In 2016, we started doing outreach at the cable park. Really? Went to Nick and and said, hey, man. We'd like to start doing a bible study here at the skate park. And he said, yeah. You can open we'll open up on Saturday mornings two hours before we open. You just have to pay $200 each Saturday. And so we're like, alright. We can't afford to do it every week, but we're like, we'll do it every other week. So $400 a month. And it's been going since 2016, every other Saturday, second and fourth Saturday at the cable park. That's cool. But I loved I loved wakeboarding because I think it's most similar to snowboarding. The board strapped to your feet. If I just wanna hit the kicker and boost real big, you know, I can I can do that? I can't do that on a skateboard because I gotta I gotta keep the board with me. You know? And the falls the falls on concrete just hurt a lot more than water. So, but, yeah, since 2016, I've been wakeboarding a lot. And and the other thing that I think I love about wakeboarding is that there's still I'm still progressing. Even at 41, I'm getting better. Every time I'm like, I'm learning new tricks, I would say skateboarding, that that ship that ship sailed. Like, there's not a whole lot of progression happening in skateboarding still for me. But I dude, skateboarding has a special place in my heart because it's so accessible. Yes. Boom. Get on a board. Can skate for fifteen minutes, put it in the garage. You know? So I keep a little rail at my house, and my kids, we skate around in the driveway and on the street. Really? Yeah. My girls, they they they roll around. They push. You know? They can push. But I had a I gotta I started skating when I was I moved chairs by, like, twelve,
Keith Vance: and my dad bought me one those Nash skateboards from Walmart. Mhmm. And then I met up with some guys that are really that were really skaters, and they they call me a poser. Because I guess Nash was Nash was like, I'm not a good board. So I'm like, what do you guys got? So anyway, then I stepped up to the a vision. Yep. And then h street board. Mhmm. That was my favorite board. And I get pretty good, man. I get I had to I a I built a a launch ramp, like a four foot launch ramp, I'd do backside air, front side air, you know. And it would get up there. I'd put in my in our road in front of house and it would would get eighties? Nineties? Nineties. Yeah. Yeah. Nineties. And, again, it was like when you had bicycles, everybody would come over. You know? Those were the good old days. My dad actually built
Mark Koch: a half pipe in our backyard. Yeah.
Keith Vance: You had a good dad. Built a half pipe in our backyard, and we would come over.
Mark Koch: Those are good days. And then, you know what is interesting is that you you've done well for yourself. You've been successful. And I have said this for a long time that skateboarders have the ability to be the most successful people in life because they know hard work and they know discipline, and they know what it's like to get knocked down and get back up, and they know what it is to be disciplined, like, to to even just to learn how to ollie. Most kids will give up before they get there because it takes so long and then to learn how to kick flip or do a tre flip. If you if you can learn how to do a three sixty flip on a skateboard, dude, you're able to do anything in the world. Like, you're able to put if you put your mind to it, you'll be extremely successful. And and I think that there's something to be said if we can harness those people if they can come to know the Lord and we can harness those people to become ministry leaders, they're gonna they're gonna get after it.
Keith Vance: It was fun. I skated, I think, all the way through as a teenager. And then, it was funny. We were I was probably in my thirties and a kid brought a skateboard up to church. He brought a he got a skateboard for his birthday or something, brought up church after his church, and then he's riding around on it. I'm like, let me see that thing. I got on that thing thinking it's like a like like a bike. You know, you like, you know, you get on a bike and you never forget. I was hoping you'd say you did you did get Skateboards ain't skateboards are different, bro. Like, it felt weird underneath my feet. It didn't feel like it like it was supposed to. I was still Ollie though, but tried to do a kickflip. I couldn't do it. Yeah. It's still it's different. It's different. Your reflexes are slower. Yeah.
Mark Koch: A year ago, not quite a year, nine months ago, I was playing just pickup basketball, wearing skate shoes, and I blew my knee out. And
Mark Koch: I, I went to the doctor, got the MRI, and the doctor's like, so you tore your MCL, meniscus, and ACL, complete tear, all three. Tore Tore the meniscus on both sides, ACL. They said it didn't even show up in the MRI. It just coiled up. It was just tore. And, I had it was in I tore it in June 2025. And, yeah. So almost exactly probably almost exactly one year ago, I tore it. Tore everything in my knee, and I had such a busy summer and a plan. My family, we had some vacations planned. And I asked the doctor, I said, is there any negative to waiting to have the surgery? And he said, no. He's like, you can't hurt your knee anymore. I said, I can't. I can just and he was like, yeah. Whatever whatever you can go back to doing, you can. So I just kinda got used to having a sloppy knee June June, July, August, and I waited till the end of September to have the surgery. And then I was feeling okay, if I'm honest. Like, I was just wearing a knee brace and, but it felt loose. It felt like I could just, like, wiggle it. You know? It felt bad, but I was still doing stuff. And then, dude, I had that surgery, and it put me back. Like, it was it was bad. Six weeks of crutches, no weight bearing, and you lose all your muscle, and then you start doing PT. And it's just, like, just to straighten it. And and I've been going back to the doctor. You know? Jess was back there, and he's like, look. You have to have to I'm like, how soon can I go back to doing stuff? You know? And he's like, you have to wait to twelve months. He's like, you don't wanna retear it. You have to let it fully heal. And I the whole time, I'm like, I hope I was like, I'm not gonna tell him. I've already been doing some stuff. Right. Because I'm like, I'm like a dad. I'm like, I'm not gonna not do anything. You know? But, anyway so I've I'm anxious to get back to, like, full full. I was just I just was down in Nicaragua. I surfed on it. I was just I wore the brace. I was like, I got, like, a nice brace, and I just, like, wore the brace. So talk well, let's talk about
Keith Vance: surfing and then snowboarding. If you had to pick your, like, your your number one place to snowboard, where would it be? You were gonna say I had choose one or the other. Where would it be and why? Well okay. So I had the chance.
Mark Koch: I had a good friend who invited me to that on that BC trip. K. And it was a hell Heli trip.
Keith Vance: Oh, wow. Oh, I've seen those.
Mark Koch: And he said, hey, Mark. Do you wanna go on the Heli trip to BC? Oh, I see. And and I was immediately, I go I I said, I do I'm I'm on a ministry budget. Like, my wife and I, we live on, like, a teacher salary. She's a stay at home mom. And I'm like, how much is it? You know? I'm thinking I'm like, I'm gonna have to really, you know, talk my wife into this one. And he said he said, well, I already paid for the whole thing for five people. He said he said, I'm gonna invite a couple other guys, but if you wanna go, you just have to play pay for your plane ticket to Vancouver. And I'm like, done. So we got five days backcountry, unlimited trips in the helicopter to the top. That's cool. And, dude, I I went real that probably wore my knee down. That was probably what did my knee in because I took four ibuprofen in the morning on the second day. And then from that point, I took four in the morning, four at night every day because I didn't I didn't and there was a couple days where the guys, they went back because we're five days in a row riding all day. You know? You're getting tired. And I was like, I did not I was the last one on that helicopter. I was not about to not ride. You know? So I don't know. That was hands down the best experience I've ever had. It it it and if I'm honest, it kind of spoils you. We didn't we didn't ride down the same part of the mountain twice. Like, you went down, and then you moved over a little bit, and then you moved over a little bit. And they called it farming, the the, you know, the section. And we're just doing these lines down, but you're just untouched powder. It was we got lucky. It was, like, the best conditions and amazing.
Keith Vance: I've never snowboarded. I tried. We went out, out west for Christmas, and there's a place you could ski and snowboard. So I paid for it all. I figured because I skated, I thought snowboarding would be easier than skiing. No. And it's not. Mm-mm. They kept saying it's not as it get is. I stripped that thing in. I like, dude, I couldn't I I could I just here. I I said I washed their bales. I couldn't even do it. I couldn't even do it. It is a they say and I have experienced this. I taught snowboarding lessons.
Mark Koch: You really don't have fun fun snowboarding till your third day. Like, you have to you just have to get beat up for two straight days, and on the third day, it starts to click, and you're like, oh, gosh. They offered someone to give you lessons, and I was like, I don't need no lessons. I use a skateboard. Totally.
Keith Vance: So, anyway You messed up. I messed up. So I don't know what the experience is like, but what is like, what's a good day snowboard for you like?
Mark Koch: I mean, yeah, powder, getting to ride deep snow it's it's hard to explain. I mean, you don't feel the bottom. You're just floating. You know? It feels like you're flying. It really does. Okay. And then it's so soft, you can just get bodied and worked, and it doesn't hurt. You know? You're just ragged on flip, and you're not on hard snow. But I grew up I grew up in Ohio. I lived there till I was 16, and I got a season pass as a young kid. From 12 to 16, I I rode at this little place called Snow Trails. Okay. And, right when I get turned when I got that dirt bike, my parents started I started getting homeschooled, and my mom asked me. It was because my younger sister was just being born or or she was actually I had a sister that was being born, a sister that was in kindergarten. I was probably, like, in fourth grade or something. And my mom was like, hey. I think I'm gonna homeschool your sisters. Do you wanna get homeschooled? And I had just got that dirt bike. And I was like, definitely. And an easy one. I was I was I was starting school at 7AM, and by eleven, I was done every day. I was like and then I was outside just riding a dirt bike. But, I got this little I got a season pass. They got me this homeschool pass where you had to go midweek. You couldn't go on the weekends. And it was in Ohio, so it was hard man made snow, but they had a little terrain park with rails and jumps, and I just lapped it. You know? I was staying in that section. It was like the skate park. So I still love I love riding in the terrain park, but it's hard this hard landing is like your ice pack. Understood. I, yeah. The last the last last big, big jump that I hit was in was in Colorado, and I tried to go through the big jump line. And each jump gets a little progressively bigger. You know? And the last one, I could tell I was going I was following a buddy. I kept getting further away from him, and I hit that big kicker. And as soon as I hit it, I knew I wasn't gonna make it. I was, like, gonna hit the knuckle, you know, the part at the end where you gotta go pass, and I hit and just got bodied. Like, I just bucked in the air and then landed on my tailbone. I I, yeah, I thought I thought there was a lot of damage done. And I was like, I think I think my days in these big jumps are done. Done?
Keith Vance: That was yeah. So Is there, like, a whole holy grail for snowboarding? Is there, like, a place that is, like, it? I'm sure there is. I mean, Jackson Hole, you know, is famous
Mark Koch: famous spot. Alaska. Where we were at in BC is pretty pretty infamous places, no more like Whistler. But, actually, you know, full circle, when my wife and I were starting to talk about ministry, I was living in Colorado. I hadn't said, hey. You should come when we decided not to go to Korea, I was like, you should come out to Colorado. Actually, she actually it was her that offered. She was like, I'm what if I move to Colorado? And I was like, I love this girl. This woman's amazing. And I was watching a lot of snowboard videos from Japan. Yeah. Japan. And I had I've had the chance to snowboard once in Japan, and it was it was a pretty amazing experience. The snow is real light. It's not heavy. They say it's like champagne powder because it's like, you do I was I literally was going through, like, waist deep snow. Wow. And it didn't slow you down. It was just, like, floating up next to you. That's cool. Japan's Japan's kinda known for That's cool. Yeah. Known for skiing. So your other thing is surfing. Yeah. I mean, I've had the chance. I you know, you I would love to tell you I'm a good I'm a much better snowboarder than I am surfer. Surfing's hard. That's why if you ever see a surfer, they're always strong, big traps. You know? Like, it's a lot of work surfing.
Keith Vance: What's why?
Mark Koch: Paddling. You're constantly moving in the water. Okay. You're you're moving trying to You can be a fat snowboarder because you can sit on the lift and then just gravity takes you down.
Keith Vance: But even sit still you're paddling because the the the
Mark Koch: the tide movement, trying to catch trying to catch the wave, trying to Totally. I mean, dude, it's like you're you're making it happen with your own strength. But I've had the chance to surf all over. I I have a special place in my heart for Nicaragua. It was the first place we traveled to with Ray Nature. I've probably traveled there more than anywhere else in the world. The waves are really good down there. There's really, really good surf. There's not it's not crowded. Surfed in California a bunch. It's like, you get out in the water and there's, you know, a 100 people, and there's a couple point breaks, and everyone's contending and fighting. And there's a lot of localism in surfing. People get mean. Like, I've surfed in Hawaii. There's places in Hawaii I've surfed where it's just like, you do not cut off someone else. Like, if you if you both are going for a wave, yeah, there's an etiquette. There's respect to a local. Yeah.
Mark Koch: Skateboarding's so much dude, skateboarding's so much more friendly. Skateboards are way more friendly than than surfers.
Keith Vance: But, also, in skateboarding with in regard to again, I'm just trying to picture it. In regard to sharing the gospel and community, you're in the park. You're in you're in proxy.
Mark Koch: That's the difference between and that's where I would say a large majority of our efforts is in skate parks because you it it conjugates people. It brings them together in the same place. How do make that happen with surfing? It's very hard. It's it's most of the ministry happens before or out of the water. Got it. Because it's like, dude, you could be in the water and you could be having the greatest conversation with a guy like this in there, and then the wave comes and it's like, alright, man. And it's like, if you don't there's almost a level of, like, you almost lose any bit of credibility if you don't go in the wave. Like, if you're in the right place and the wave's coming and you're like, oh, let's keep this conversation going. That guy's like, bro, you're weird, man. Like so it's almost like you're like, alright. See you later. You know? And then now now you've gone right or left on this wave, and you're far away from that guy. And then you're you're not gonna be some weirdo and paddle back over and say, hey, buddy. You know? It's like so it really does it for us ministry with surfing. It's building relationships with guys. Got it. Having conversations on the beach before or after. Just developing friendships. Totally. Mhmm. And then with snowboarding, you're riding the lift. You're Snowboarding is unique because you're they're trapped with you on the lift. What I'm saying. You got some time to talk. The guy when we've got some guys that we work with in Japan, and they're like, dude, I share the gospel every lift. Good. I'm like, hey, man, dude. And they're like, guess what? They can't go anywhere. They're stuck with me for five minutes till we get to the top. Got And, I've been on a lift with with JP in Japan, and he's just like, so how are you, man? Good. Good. Can I tell you something? And just boom. Straight to it. And he's like, may never see that guy again, but at least he heard. You know? And it's just over and over. Has there ever been a time when you're either going to the skate park or on a ski lift or,
Keith Vance: you know, you're you're surfing that you just didn't feel like sharing the gospel?
Mark Koch: Oh, yeah. It just it just it just wasn't just tell you one quick story. I think I shared this at the banquet, but I'll share it again because it's it was really impactful in my heart. I felt that way in Brazil. It was at the end of the trip, tired. You know? Like, there's also a level of insecurity when you're not as good as other people. You know? You go you show up to a skate park, and there's guys that are really, really good at skating. Skateboarding can be intimidating. Like, I mean, I have tattoos, but you show up at a park, guys are drinking, smoking weed, look mean. Like, I'm I'm at least kind of a presentable, like, a friendly person. You know? There's guys that are, like, mean looking at the skate park. You're like, I can't believe we're about to try to get these guys to listen to us for us to preach the gospel. You know? And so we show up to the skate park, and that's exactly what it was like. Tough crowd. And I'm like, maybe I'm with Bob who's amazing guy from Sao Paulo. We're in another part of Brazil, and and I'm like, maybe we just leave you all the stuff we brought, and you can do the contest later. Oh. That's what I said to him. And he was like, what are you talking about, dude? He's like, no. We're gonna do it. And, I look over. There's a girl. Yeah. So that was one of those situations, but I'll finish this story real quick. There's this girl who looks rough. She looks like a a mean girl, like, younger, probably late teens, tattoos, piercings on her face, dressed pretty inappropriate. Like, you wouldn't want your daughter dressed like this girl. And I remember my heart just kinda breaking a little bit for this girl, thinking that this is someone's daughter. Because you have daughters. Because I have a daughter. Right? Yeah. And you look at this girl with compassion and, like, also, she's the only girl at the skate park with a bunch of real rough looking dudes. And immediately, my mind goes to who's taking advantage of her? Like, how's this girl being treated? And so we do this little event super, like, in unannounced, uninvited. We just show up. We do a contest. We give away a couple of prizes. Bob brings everyone over, shares the gospel. I'm watching. I'm standing back. This girl's standing there with all these dudes that are real rough. He shares the gospel. We pray. He prays. We pray together. And then afterwards, I see him. I look over at him, he's standing, and he's got his hands on this girl's face, and he's talking to her. And I see him just give her a hug, and then we get we, like, pack up. We say goodbye to these guys. We get in the car. Was like, hey. What were you saying to that girl? And he was saying that afterwards, she came up to him and and she said, is this a new religion? And he was just like, no. Like, this is like, she had never heard the simplicity of the gospel. Her question was, is this a new religion? And he said, no. Like, no. This is there there's a God that loves you, and he cared for you, and he's a perfect heavenly father. And then she said, I don't have a father. And he was like, you you do have a father. And, like and he said he shared it with her and then gave her a hug. He's like, you have a father that loves you and cares for you. And I just remember being like, we get in the car, and I'm like, dude, who would have ever shared the gospel with that girl? Like, I can guarantee you she was not walking into a church. And there were no other Christians walking into that skate park. And I got in the car, and I'm just like, who would have shared the gospel with that girl? And, like, in in many ways, I'm like, who's gonna keep sharing the gospel with that girl? And your heart just is burdened with one new skate park every week in Brazil, one new group of kids, one more of those girls in every single skate park, and you're just like, the harvest is plentiful. And
Mark Koch: yeah. Yeah. But it's dude, the enemy insecurities,
Keith Vance: just energy. What about what about the days it's not going great and you're just into your own feelings and just got us, don't wanna do it today. If there's been that, we're just We show yeah. I think because of the consistency, we show up.
Mark Koch: You when you go to the gym, if you if you know you're not gonna see anybody that's gonna hold you accountable, it's easy to not go. Whenever I find out I've been going to the gym Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Whenever I find out that the other guys I'm going with aren't gonna be there, it's easy for me to be like, ah, maybe I won't go. You know? But when you know that you've told people you're gonna be there and you know that they're gonna be there, it's like you just show up. Like, I don't I don't
Keith Vance: I'm what I'm getting at is there's been times, say, Wednesday night, it's been a long day. Last thing I wanna do is go to church, do bible study. Maybe I've been, you know, battling my own flesh and stuff. It's just like, I just don't want to. But every time I've done it anyway, I've always walked out thankful that I did. Mhmm. There's never been a time there's been plenty times you brought the gym. There's been plenty times I didn't wanna go to the gym Mhmm. But I just did it anyway. Mhmm. And I've never said, well, that was a waste time. I wish I didn't do that. Totally. So that's what I'm trying to get at. Has there been times where you've been like, No. Yeah. Bound your own flesh, your own feelings and didn't wanna go, but
Mark Koch: working through that, you still saw God work in any way. I didn't wanna go to the the skate park for a long time after I had knee surgery. I'm like, I can't even skateboard. It was like I felt like this was a bad analogy, but I felt like it's like an alcoholic that's trying to go through recovery and taking them to the bar. You know? It's like I'm like, I don't wanna show up at the skateboard. Can't do anything. You know? Like and it's like, those have been some of the best days I've had at the skatepark when I haven't even been skateboarding. Wow. You know? Like, when I didn't even bring a skateboard with me because I'm just there hanging out. You don't have any distractions. You're just there hanging out. And, yeah, I Sometimes think sometimes we overcomplicate it. Sometimes we gotta get everything ready just right. Yep. If you're a Sunday school teacher, you know, you gotta get your Sunday school lesson just right, everything's gotta be perfect. If if it's not perfect, well, I just I'm just not I just can't do it now. Totally. But if you just show up Just show up, man. Is that's what I that's what I think this podcast is about. Just show up. Just show up. Yeah. When you're at a restaurant,
Keith Vance: there's somebody next to you and just as the spirit leads, just have a conversation. Just where you are in life. Totally. Just have a conversation. Barbershop. Dude, the guy's cutting your hair.
Mark Koch: Well, God was saying Where where is he gonna go for thirty months while he's cutting your hair? Just keep going back conversation. And keep going back to the same barbershop Mhmm. Because it's like, you can do that. In fact, I just did that at a barbershop in Indonesia, you know, with the guy getting a haircut because I had been in Asia for two weeks and my beard, I I wish it was looking like yours, but it was getting real scraggly, and I didn't have any clippers. And to get a haircut was, like, a dollar 60 or something. It was, like, so cheap. And so I was like, alright. I'll just get a haircut. But I'm never gonna see that guy again. But if you're here like, if you're a local barber, find your local barber, dude, and just have build a relationship with him. And every time you see him, what's up, man? How are you doing? How's your family? How's your life? What, what are you struggling with? What can I pray for you? Like, are you reading your bible? You know, like
Keith Vance: Just be genuine. Be yourself and have a conversation.
Mark Koch: Totally. People pick up on things that are not genuine. But if someone as you build relationships with people and they know that they actually you actually care for them But if you're dude, if you're spending time with the Lord Yeah. From the overflow of the mouth heart, the mouth will speak. Yeah, boy. If you're dude, if you if you are dude, it will be genuine Yes. Because you will have just eaten the food from that good restaurant. Yes. And you're like, bro, let me tell you about this place and this burger I just had. You know? And it's like, you you can't help but talk about it. Yes.
Keith Vance: So here's the other thing. We're gonna get to Indonesia, Casey. Keep checking your your watch. It's 09:00. I'm just thinking about you and your daughter. Don't worry about us. But listen,
Keith Vance: when it's in you, you spend that time and you feel it and you go to the barber and you can't help but share what's in your heart. You know what? Nearly every time there's been something going on there on the other side of the equation Totally. That you didn't know about that they need A 100%. They needed that. Yeah. God creates needs, and he creates the gift to fulfill that need. And I've been on both sides. Mhmm. So just being sensitive to holy spirit. Don't overcomplicate it. I had this burning heart thought in my heart this morning.
Mark Koch: It's cool that I get to share it now, but, I just saw that, Steph Curry, basketball player. You know? He just signed a new shoe contract deal with some Chinese shoe brands, like, real weird brand. I don't even know the name of it, but $400,000,000. Yeah. It's his shoe contract. And I I literally had this thought. I was just like, man, I wish I wish I knew someone who knew Steph Curry so that they could try to get Steph Curry to donate some money to right nature. That's where my mind went. I was like, if only we knew someone who knew Steph Curry, we could get into like, I could tap into that network or that that friendship. And then the Lord was like, dude, everyone that knows me can talk to me. Right. And I was like, what a crazy thought that in like, I'm like, oh, hey, Keith. You know Steph Curry? Could you talk to Steph Curry? That I would think that that's better than saying, hey, Keith. Could you talk to God? Right. Like, could you go to God? And, dude, I would the thought of this was blowing my mind that people would intercede on behalf of me and this silly little organization to the creator of everything. And I was just like and so I recorded this little video, this morning asking people to pray for right nature. Because I was just like, if if you will go to God and say, hey, God, right nature could use help. It the ministry could use money. It could use staff. It could use resources. It could use direction. I'm like, I would I would if I knew people knew Steph Curry and I would do that, I'm like, how much more should I be encouraging people to do that to the creator? Sure. And because the harvest is plentiful and the workers are few. And the Lord says and Luke ten two, he said, pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out workers. Right. And I'm like, that's what we need. We need people earnestly to prayer, prayer, prayer, pray. If I'm just imagining I'm just imagining this throne room of God and there's people walking in. Hey. There's this organization, Rite of Nature. They need workers. And then, like, five seconds later, another person say, hey, God. You know this organization, of Nature, they need workers. Like, I think that's what I think that verse would look like. That's good. If people were praying and, like, god's just like people, person, person, person, person just asking over and over.
Keith Vance: It's funny that he gave you that to bolster your faith. Totally.
Mark Koch: I mean Yeah. And I think to remind me that, like, we don't need Steph Curry, you know, or Steph Curry's money. It'd be sweet dude. Yeah. But, maybe not. Totally. Totally. Maybe not. I'd have we didn't have wished those Chinese shoes.
Mark Koch: But, we're we're in a season in full transparency, we're in a season of pruning. The Lord is doing something different. It's okay, though. No. I I and he has necessary. He has affirmed that in me, you know, in hearing this because, like, in fact, I asked a buddy the other day who has, like he's really into fruit trees, and I say, hey. I just had a question because I was thinking about it. Was like, is it normal to prune a tree and a branch of a tree that has fruit on it? And he said he he goes, you know, on an avocado tree, if you don't cut off the branches that produce avocados, the whole tree will split in half. He's like, the pruning is not only necessary, but for the success of the tree, it's absolutely, like, it's a necessity. And and sometimes I think for us, even right now, like, being pruned or having things that feel like they're being closed or doors closed or things cut off that are were good, that were producing fruit, I'm reminded of John fifteen. He's like, you know, to prunes the the people he loves. He prunes us so that we'll produce even more fruit. And so we're in a season of just in in 2020, we set up a second location of the ministry. And then in 2022, we set up a third location. K. And the third location, I think, is coming to a close. Like, I think it's it's done. It's in Southern California in Oceanside. And we said that we had six staff, went down to four staff, now down to two staff. And I I think it's just this it's probably clump I think it's just the end. You know? And it's been really good. There's been amazing things out there, but it's been it's been tough. It's been a struggle. And just wrestling through asking the Lord, God, like, does your provision and your resource and you provide, is it does it dictate the vision? But I I don't I'm not so sure it does. I think it's more so the strategy and the methods and the ways that we do things. Like, where we're going, I think, is still the same. It's the same mission, same vision,
Keith Vance: but how we get there. Let me let me encourage you. Let me encourage you.
Keith Vance: My dad started church here when I was 10 years old. That's why we're here in Florida. Gunnery Road Baptist Church. That's why we're here. We just celebrated in November our fortieth church anniversary out at our family ranch Wow. Out there. And, we had a meal together. We had some special speakers come in. We sang the cue the acoustics out of my ranch, bro. I just I just got emotional because
Keith Vance: and then, they played a they played a slideshow of the progression of the church over the last forty years. I can only imagine. Bro, I was 10 years old. Yeah. There's pictures of me,
Mark Koch: helping lay block in the church building at 16 years old. There's pictures of me With the two by eight hitting jumps on the bike? No. Probably for the church blocks? No.
Keith Vance: There's like, we were all young. Yeah. There was people in those early on pictures that have died. There are people in the church that moved on to other places. Totally. There's me that man, I was a kid and where did the time go? Now I'm I'm old. Mhmm. There's new faces as it progress. There's new faces. Like, even in the last year, there's new faces that came. Mhmm. And I was in a place in my life where God's doing something that I don't know what it is. I like you said, it resonated. God has shown me where I had this God just showed me just so I can do it. Yeah. That waiting, that agonizing, like, I just just tell me what hole to dig so I start digging. Yeah.
Keith Vance: So he gave me an answer before I even knew the question to ask. In watching that slideshow,
Keith Vance: the church, my dad's church, is not my dad's church. Mhmm. It's God's church. And I have been doing a study about what is the church. Amen. This church isn't a building. It isn't an organization. The church is the family of God. It is the body of Christ. And sometimes, God prunes down to nothing and brings in new people. Amen. Sometimes God moves people who have been there forever somewhere else Mhmm. And new people come in. And those transition times are painful. Mhmm. They're bewildering sometimes, but God gave me an answer before I even knew the question. Hey, Keith.
Keith Vance: This is my work. I'm doing this work. I put people in place and, hey, hey, Keith, even though you've been here forty years, if I put you somewhere else, it's my prerogative to put you somewhere else. Keith, at this church goes down to, like, four people Amen. Where two or three are gathered together. I'll be in the midst of their name. Totally. So he's he's ministering to me, and I don't even know why he's ministering to me yet. Mhmm. So let me just encourage you. Yeah. Amen. If the third one closes down or whatever, it's the work of God. Totally. And he's not done yet. Amen. He's still doing his thing. He's not done yet. So don't get discouraged just because the dynamic has changed. Amen. And it it looks like we're dwindling down. No. We're two or three are together together, like, you can follow me. So let let him do his thing and just seek him every day. Dear, in Psalm Psalm one twenty seven,
Mark Koch: this hit hard. I mean, we call the the coffee shop in Fort Myers. We have one in Florida, one in Latin America, in Nicaragua, one kind of we had started in California, but the house of right nature. And in Psalm one twenty seven, it says, unless the lord builds the house, the labors labor in vain. They build it. Yeah. And then it goes on to say, they eat the bread of anxious toil. And
Mark Koch: just the tension, you know, the wrestle is like, Lord, did I build? Have I built things without you? Did I labor in vain? And I don't think so. Like, when I think about how we ended up in California, the staff that God brought, I didn't seek them. Right. Like, I didn't dude, we had a guy we had a guy that came to me right well well, this guy, Jake Kenny, reaches out and says, hey, man. Have you ever thought about starting a headquarters in California? I'm like, daddy, we've talked a lot about it. We prayed about it. And then simultaneously, another guy reaches out, Julio, says, hey. I really feel like God's called me to be a part of Red Nature. I live in Long Beach, California. I connect those two guys. They they hit it off. We have another married couple on staff here in Florida that we feel like God's calling us to California. They move out there. Right around the same time, we get this guy, Brad, who calls me one day and said, hey, man. My wife and I feel like we're supposed to we've been saving this money for a remodel on our house. We feel like God told us to give it to you. Wow. And, he was like, it's a $100,000. And I'm like, bro, you can't give me a $100,000? This guy's like my age. You know? I'm like, dude, you better do the remodel. And he was just like, no, dude. He's like, I know that god's told me to give it to you. And so we put in this bank account specifically for California. The ways that god orchestrated things, we didn't. I'm like, lord. Like, I didn't build this. Like, I don't feel like I have, but I'm like, why why is it done? You know? And I don't know if we'll go back out there. Maybe we will. Maybe we will. But I think that it is just a season. We're coming into a season of refinement and and honing in. And it's sad. Like, it's if I'm honest, it's a little sad. It's a For sure. It's a it's a feeling like when you see the video at the church and you see the history and you see faces that are now passed on or people who have moved, it's bittersweet. You know? It's just because it's like, it's like the end of a movie almost. You know? It's like it's over. And, and there's a little bit of just questioning in my heart of, like, Lord, what is it that you have for us? You know? Is our time in California done? Because it's like, dude, you're talking about a mecca of people who need to hear the Lord better. It's like easy. You know? Skate parks everywhere. And you're just like, oh, it's crazy. Like, I thought for sure this would have popped off and thrived out here, but it has been a struggle. Like, it's been hard. It's expensive. And I don't know. Like, I can't went to Indonesia and Philippines and have been in that part of the world a lot. And I'm like, honestly, this part of the world, the ROI exponentially greater. You know? Like, the amount of money we were spending to support the base in California and the team, what do I do? We could have done started eight other headquarters in Southeast Asia because it's so cheap. But
Keith Vance: So let's wind it down. You just you mentioned Indonesia. You just got back from Indonesia. Mhmm. What was that trip like?
Mark Koch: It was just it was just a few days. I was there for just four days at the end of this trip to The Philippines.
Mark Koch: Indonesia's crazy. Like, it's we were in Bali specifically. It was just a weird place, man. Like In what place? Like, I'm talking it's like being in Indiana Jones, like, like, temples, like, Hindu Buddhist temples literally all over. Like, you'd be just driving temple, temple, temple. Okay. Whole place is old. Like, everything's covered in moss. Looks old. We were on, the first day I get there, the guy, like, dude, you have to get on a motorcycle. Otherwise, you're gonna sit in traffic for hours. He's like, you can ride a motorcycle? Was like, yeah. For sure. Dude, it was it was the most fun I've ever had on a motorcycle, but I legit almost died, like, a 100 times. Like, it was I'm talking, like, I had I had cars hit the mirror of the handlebars. You know? Like, I was bumping up against other motor it was the most congested. It was like being in a motocross race nonstop. Like, it was and it was fun. I loved it. I'm like and it was no rules. Like, there's no cops. There's no speed limit. There's no traffic laws. I was riding on sidewalks. I'm passing people on the wrong side of the road. I'm passing in the Bro, you're you're living your childhood. You said you were a rambunctious kid and always getting in trouble. You're just living you're just living your childhood. Reminding myself I had a family. Otherwise, I was about to just get buried at Endo, but it was, it was really it was it was cool. That part was fun. I I went in there not knowing what to expect because, you know, they they say there's not many Christians, and I knew my friend Indra was a believer. But, dude, he there's there's a commune there's 3% Christian population in Bali. So 97% non Christian, but 3%, boy, there's a lot of people. So I got to be around Indonesian Christians, which was really encouraging, and they love the Lord. And Describe that for me. Did you have service with them? We went You fellowship with them? Like, describe it. So Indra, this guy, extremely really good skateboarder, really good skateboarder, but he's gotten really into mountain climbing, like K. Climbing these mountains. There's 10 big mountains in Bali. And he was like, hey. You wanna go climb one of the mountains while you're here? And I was like, definitely, dude. And I'm thinking, man, I hope my knee's gonna be good. But, he was like he's like, we'll, we'll drive up on the bikes, get there in the evening, and we'll wake up. He's like, I've been trying to climb the mountains and summit the mountain by sunrise. She's like, we'll wake up at three in the morning, start climbing the mountain. And, I didn't know what to expect. Well, dude and and I think part of part of it is I'm so cheap that I love this. We get to where I we were, like, camping at the base of the Mountain Dew. We were glamping. Like, we show up to this little yurt with actual beds. Mhmm. Bathrooms. It had these little hot springs, like a natural little hot spring. And I was like, dude, this I was feeling kinda guilty as my wife's taking care of all three kids. I'm, like, sleeping in this king-size bed. You know? Like, and I'm like, Indra, how much is this, dude? He's like, oh, it's cheap. He's like, he he paid for it. You know? Anyway, so we get there. We sleep in this whole thing at the base of the mountain, and then we get up at three in the morning and start climbing. This was one of the things that I wanted to share on the podcast where as we're climbing pitch black headlamp, you know, walking up this pretty steep mountain. There were so many flashlights going up this mountain. Lots of people were climbing this mountain. And as we're walking, I kept seeing these piles of these little, like, palm branches with flowers and things. I didn't even like, you you see it first, you're like, whatever. That's weird. You keep going. You keep seeing them. And I'm like, Andrew, what what is up with this? And he was like, oh, those are those are all Hindu people bringing offerings to the gods. And I'm like, what? And he was like, yeah. They'll put food, sometimes money. They'll make these, like, little basket things, flowers, incense, like, spices. And they believe that the higher they climb the mountain, the closer they get to God and the more he'll hear their prayers. And immediately, he tells me that, and the Lord is like, how amazing that I came down the mountain, that these people believe you have to climb the mountain. And the higher you climb, the closer you get to me. And he was just like, but what separates Christianity from every other religion is that that God came to us. Condescended to us. And it was like when I felt like the Lord just spoke that to me while I'm climbing this mountain. It would just fill me with this joy and gratitude that, like, we worship a God who came down. And, anyway, we get to the top of this mountain, you look out, and we just got to see the sunrise. And we're up there at six in the morning. You know? And it was just we ended up climbing with 15 guys from Indonesia. We get to the top, and there's a lot of people. It was actually surprising. I didn't I'm I was I don't know what I was thinking. I was thinking we were climbing a mountain by ourselves. You know? And we get to tell him there's a lot of people that are there. Anyway, dude, we got to sing worship at the top of this mountain. Wow. And with these guys that I'm just, like, unashamed of, like, just, like, stoked on the Lord. And, they don't care what people think. You know? Anyway, we got to got to worship, sing sing a couple worship songs, and and just fellowship. I I wasn't there. Unfortunately, I wasn't there over a Sunday to get to go to church with them. But this guy, they've been doing, every Monday and every Saturday, they just been doing, a home gathering. They just they gather together and read, and there's a pat local pastor that's coming into this guy's house and leading it, and then they're at church on Sunday. And he's just using his home and his business as a way to build the bridge between the lost and the local church and lead people into relationship. And he's got people, which is so cool because he's he was a professional skateboarder in Indonesia for a long time, rode for Volcom and a bunch of other brands and start now has started his own clothing company. And,
Mark Koch: it's the clothing company's kinda popped off. Like, he's he's having all these professional skateboarders come to Bali, and he's making, like, pants for these guys. And they're, like, getting to be like, I want my pants bigger here, whatever. You know? And so they're, like, designing their own pants. And then what he'll do is is he'll put out their pro model of the however they design their pants in whatever color. And, dude, he's crushing it. Doing, like, I don't know, maybe a quarter million dollars a year in sales selling pants from Bali. Wow. And so he's got a team of guys that he's employed, but what he's doing, dude, he's got these guys coming in from all over the world, and he's getting a minister to them. Guys that are, like, so far from the Lord, and, the Lord's just opening the door for him to be a light and a witness. And, so I think we're gonna partner. I that's our prayers that we get a that was the first trip to Bali, and I told him, I said, bro, this is definitely not our last time coming. We're gonna We're gonna partner up with him. What's the plan? For sure. It sucks getting there, dude. It's a lot of work, and it's expensive, and it's it just is a long, long travel day. But I was like, dude, we're gonna get some more groups coming back to Bali because it's, like, this massive need. God's given them a platform. There's an infrastructure there that could support outreach, and and it was good. So I spent you know, we spent four days together, but really tried to really hone in on the idea of, like, bro, you we gotta get you at the skate park every week. Because he's doing a lot of ministry, but I'm like, dude, you gotta get, like, that same model we're doing. And so they're like, yeah. Yeah. For sure. We'll do it. We're gonna do it. And and I think they're doing it now. Like, they're in. They're, they're starting what we call we call it skate church. And, and we would say it's not a substitute for the church, but it's an expression of the church. And it's a bridge to get kids to experience what church looks like. So You,
Keith Vance: we're gonna end it right here. Can I just I got it capsulized? You were rock climbing, seeing these home branches and stuff, these sacrifices to these gods that don't exist. Mhmm. We
Keith Vance: are described as living sacrifices. Totally. So there was a sacrifice climbing that mountain of living sacrifice. Mhmm. The difference. Right? Mhmm. Again, it's the work of God in us. Mhmm. When he died, we died. Mhmm. We live because he lives. Amen. And we are to die to self and be a living sacrifice to him daily. Amen. And you are a description of a living sacrifice with just God, here I am. I'm gonna take some skateboards to some kids. Try them. Use me. Amen. And that's what we're called to do. And it doesn't have to be overcomplicated,
Mark Koch: does it? Buy some freaking skateboards. It's it's really it's pretty darn simple. Pretty darn simple. Why do we make it too hard or too complicated? Because because the sometimes the things that are the most simplest in life are the hardest. And and I will say this, dude, walking with Jesus is hard. Being a godly father is hard. Being a being a faithful, submissive, like, follower of Jesus is hard. Not being selfish, not pursuing whatever feels good is is not easy, but it's very simple. But, it's like for like, construction, it's not that complicated, but it's hard work. It's hard. But satisfying. Right? Amen, man. Did you give it up? No chance. And I know I know that this is what God's called me to. And for years, I'm like, Lord, you close the door on right nature. I'll just go do something else. You know? I'll go work at Crossroads. I I know that the Lord's called me to do ministry and to be in ministry. And I've held it out, man, seventeen years since the Lord put the vision on our heart. Good. Open hands of, like, God, whatever you want, lead it, guide it, direct it. And trying trying still, you know, trying to be very faithful with the small things, the talents. And
Keith Vance: Any questions that I didn't answer you ask you that I should've?
Mark Koch: I feel bad. I I feel like I talked a lot. But No. That was the whole point. I let you get it out. Is there anything No. It's good. I'm I'm grateful. One of the biggest things that we need, I think, is just exposure and awareness, and I hope and pray that your listeners are encouraged by my testimony and that they learned. So my this is new, dude. I started this in January.
Keith Vance: Again, I I sympathize with you because I feel like this is something that God called me to do. Mhmm. I can't get away from it. Mhmm. I don't know why me. Mhmm. I'm just obeying, and I don't even really know what I'm obeying. Mhmm. I'm just giving people a platform to share their story and we're real small. Like, you probably got way more followers than I get. We're I'm like, what? I'm like, I'm even like like afraid to ask people to come on because it's so new Mhmm. And like so microscopic as opposed to like viewership or Yeah. Followers and all that kind of stuff. But again, it goes back to our heavenly father. Amen. If he lays something in there, he'll he'll grow up in his timing and he'll do his thing. And if he called if he told us that, you know, a good shepherd would leave the 99
Mark Koch: Mhmm. To go after the one, There might be one listener who Yeah. Who listens to this and is like, you know what? I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna do something similar. So we just obey, pick some pick some fruit, let God do the harvest. Right?
Keith Vance: So we'll we'll support you. And then, what are some needs that you guys have? Like, just some pro practical stuff. What do you guys need? Prayer for sure. Just like,
Mark Koch: just like the old Steph Curry example. You know, we need people that would be willing to go to the father and intercede.
Mark Koch: Finances. I mean, this is this is the summer months in Florida. It's it's been weird. Like, this will be the first year that I think our giving has ever been less than it was the year before. Like, we have, in seventeen years, never raised money less money than we had the year before. Okay. And so when I say we're entering in a season of pruning Understood. What happens is just like construction or business or whatever, you enter into rhythms that cost money and and outreach. And so then when you have less resources, less money, you're like, okay. Well, what do we scale back on? What do we cut? We've never ever experienced that. This is the first time we've ever experienced that. Understood. So maybe the Lord will change that in the next six months of 2026. We've got a cup we praise God, man. We own five properties through the ministry. Two are paid off, free and clear. We're we feel the conviction we would like to be debt free even though we have we own the other three. We have mortgage payments, and, we actually we've never we've never tried to raise, like, large, large capital to pay off debt or pay off properties. We have the three properties. Each one is about $250,000 in debt on those three properties. The equity is, like, exponentially greater by two times the value, which is awesome. But, we're we're praying actually, one of the prayers is by the end of twenty twenty six, we would pay off those properties.
Keith Vance: So And You guys have a coffee shop. Do you guys sell good coffee?
Mark Koch: I've been told we do, but I I hate coffee. I don't like it. Dude, I just I just laid one up for you. Yeah. That was I drink coffee, so I'll find your shop. You you come and tell and tell me, but I I could drink I could drink our coffee, and then I could drink gas station seven Eleven coffee, and I would tell you they both taste as yeah. I'm not I've I've tried, man. I've been I've been drinking coffee since I was probably 12, and it still tastes just as nasty as it once did. But, yeah, we have good coffee, I think. We have a lot of very, we have coffee lovers on our team, and they say it's good. So we'll put the link in there and just Yeah. Just go Come by. Come check it out. We'll see you. It's open. Dude, it's open five days a week, Tuesday through Saturday, seven to seven, 7AM to 7PM. I forced myself to drink coffee. My great grandfather, when I he would get up early in the morning. Yeah. You said those coffee percolators. Totally.
Keith Vance: He would drink it black. So I would drink it black because of him. Dude, it was like tar. That's that's how it still tastes to me. He's like, you want some cream in that? Was like, no, sir. I'm gonna drink it like you. And then, dude, I choked it down. I choked it down. It makes me sick.
Mark Koch: And then I developed a taste for it. But you know what? Yeah. Dude, I I love I don't have caffeine a bunch because I don't drink coffee, but I like the effects of coffee. If you're, like, you know, in the morning when you're tired and you hit that coffee, you're like, boom. It's Yeah. Wakes you up.
Keith Vance: Amen. I'm glad we made time. Yeah. I am thankful for you and your ministry. Thank you, man. Any co labor. Yeah. Amen. I I love pastors.
Mark Koch: I
Keith Vance: love first responders. I love teachers. Got few of those are callings. Like, I would lump you into that ministry. It's a calling. Kinda like a hybrid of all three of those things. Has to be a calling, brother. Because if it's not Mhmm. When you're in a season of pruning and you're checking yourself, was this me or was I, like, you track your steps back, say, nope. This wasn't me, God, because this was you, this was you, and this is you. So I'm just gonna keep going and let you do your work. Stay the course. So I I hope I hope I've encouraged you a little bit. And, man, you have wanna be an encouragement to you. You have. And, I'm looking forward to developing a friendship with you. Same. I wanna meet your wife. Yeah. Your kids, maybe we go to dinner sometime or Let's do that. To know each other. So Let's do that. Let me pray for you. Thank you. God, we thank you again for your goodness and your grace. We thank you for the gifts that you give to us. God, I pray we would be stewards of our talents and abilities. We may not trust in our own ability, but we trust in you and your work. God, pray for right nature that you bless it. Thank you for Mark and his testimony. I pray you'd lift him up, encourage him, guide him. Thank you for his just a simple testimony just to go out and just talk to some kids. Mhmm. And we thank you, God, that your work is easy. Mhmm. For you bring people into his life to support him. Mhmm. Thank you for the opportunity to meet him, to know him. Thank you for his ministry again, God. Mhmm. Thankful for what you're doing and what you're gonna do. In Christ's name. Amen. Amen. Love you, brother. Thank you, man.